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What The Seventh-Day Adventists Won’t Tell You About Their Teachings
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“The official SDA position is that if you do not worship on Saturday you are not a Christian and will not go to Heaven. Sunday worship is the mark of the beast. They are clearly today a false Cult.”
“And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.” 2 Timothy 2:26 (KJV)
Seventh-day Adventists won’t tell you they are behind the “Revelation Seminars” they sponsor. They act all” interdenominational” if questioned. Watch out for these SDA outreaches as well: Voice of Prophecy, Faith for Today, It is Written, The Quiet Hour, and Amazing Facts.
They also hide behind Health oriented shows on the networks, and sponsor stop-smoking clinics etc, all as introductions to Seventh-day Adventism. Often, the only tip-off that what you are reading originates with them is that it is published by “Pacific Press”. They produce bright and colorful Children’s books, often seen in medical and dental offices, and of course, unsuspecting Church libraries. They very much want to be perceived as Evangelical Christians, seeking a place on the ministerial fellowships. All this is good PR for them, but what do they really believe?
What facts won’t they tell you?
They won’t tell you that they consider themselves to be the only, true, remnant Church. Their prophetess, Ellen G. White, whom they revere and believe without question has told them that “…Satan has taken full possession of the Churches”. (Spiritual Gifts V.l,p.189-90)
They also believe our prayers are an “abomination” to God. (Spiritual Gifts, V1 p.190). That is what they think of you and your church, even if they won’t say it out loud in public, or to your face. They revere their founding prophetess, Ellen G. White, and made this statement in their “Ministry” Magazine of Oct. 1981 and have never retracted it:
“We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen White’s writings to be of equal quality. The superintendence of the Holy Spirit was just as careful and thorough in one case as in the other”.
They won’t tell you too much about Ellen G. White at their public seminars, but their goal is to bring the person attending to the point of conversion and baptism. Their 2000 baptismal certificate poses questions to which the candidate must answer “yes”.
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Question 8 says, “Do you accept the biblical teaching of spiritual gifts and believe that the gift of prophecy is one of the identifying marks of the remnant church”. If the candidate says “yes” and is baptised, they soon learn that the “gift of prophecy” is Ellen G. White’s writings. Point 13 has them accepting that the SDA Church is the remnant church of Bible Prophecy. They have been baptized into an exclusive group, but they don’t know how exclusive it is, yet! No doubt they will be urged to avail themselves of a “Clear Word Bible”. This publication of theirs has inserted the words and doctrines of Ellen G. White right into the Bible text, insuring that the person studying it will have the mind of Ellen G. White. Slowly, but surely, the new SDA will come to believe these extra-biblical doctrines that set the SDA church apart from Evangelical Christianity.
The SDA Doctrines on Salvation
If you receive Christ as your Saviour through the SDA’s, only your past sins, up to that moment are forgiven. Now you must get to work to earn your salvation. Ellen G. White said in the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald of 10-26-1897 this statement, “…The terms of salvation for every son and daughter of Adam are here outlined. It is plainly stated that the condition of gaining eternal life is obedience to the commandments of God”. Of course, it is the fourth commandment that is stressed, since Ellen saw this one glowing in one of her visions. Salvation now becomes dependent on which day of the week one observes. Modern Adventists keep sundown Friday to sundown Saturday as the Sabbath, but earlier in their history they kept 6 p.m. Friday to 6 p.m. Saturday. The rest of us “Sunday keepers” are doomed to receive the “mark of the beast” and lose our eternal life. (The Spirit of Prophecy V. 4, p. 505).
They sure don’t say this at their seminars!
Christ exclaimed “It is finished” when He died for our sins, but it is not finished in Seventh-day Adventism! EGW wrote in “The Faith I Live By” p. 211, “At the time appointed for the judgement – the close of the 2300 days, in 1844 began the work of investigation and blotting out of sins…both the living and the dead are to be judged “out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works”. (Rev. 20:12″. People are never told at Seminars that if they become SDA’s and are baptized, a recording angel is watching their every move to determine their salvation eventually. EGW issues this warning in The Faith I Live By, page 210, “Every man’s work passes in review before God…Opposite each name in the books of heaven is entered, with terrible exactness, every wrong word, every selfish act, every unfulfilled duty, and every secret sin, with every artful dissembling. Heaven-sent warnings or reproofs neglected, wasted moments, unimproved opportunities, the influence exerted for good or for evil, with its far-reaching results, all are chronicled by the recording angel.” It’s not much fun being an Adventist and being watched constantly by that recording angel with his “terrible exactness”. Prepare to become very uptight. Christians will say, “sure we slip sometimes into unintentional sin, but we have a mediator in Christ Jesus”. No, you don’t in Seventh-day Adventism.
Be prepared for this SDA doctrine by Ellen G. White: “…Those who are living on the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling. Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort they must be conquerors in the battle with evil….”. (The Great Controversy p. 425). Obviously they have chosen EGW’s doctrine over that stated in the Bible in Hebrews 7:25, “Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them”. Where would we all be without Christ as our mediator, EVER making intercession for us? Christ bore our own sins in his body on the tree according to the Bible. 1 Peter 2:24 says, “Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree…”.
Become a SDA, and it will be Satan who will eventually bear your sins! Ellen G. White wrote, “…so Christ will place all these sins upon Satan, the originator and instigator of sin…so Satan, bearing the guilt of all the sins which he has caused God’s people to commit, will be for a thousand years confined to the earth, which will then be desolate…”.(The Great Controversy p. 485). You won’t hear this one at the Seminars!
They keep their radical teachings for later.
The false prophecies of the SDA
Seventh-day Adventism grew despite endorsing a false date for Christ’s return. What a dubious beginning! Ellen G. White endorsed a false prophecy by William Miller that Christ would return, first in 1843 and then 1844. Miller repented when Christ didn’t show up on his date but Ellen didn’t want to be viewed as a false prophetess for endorsing him through her visions. The idea was concocted by one of her followers that the date was right, but the event was wrong.
Ellen eagerly accepted this “out”, and this explanation was offered to explain away the false prophecy: Christ didn’t come visibly to earth, but He, invisibly, in heaven, changed compartments from the Holy to the Most Holy in 1844 and began the work of “investigative judgment” that we have discussed previously. This false date and its failure triggered other heresies on the atonement of Christ which continues to this day. Honest-hearted SDA’s who have pointed out the error of the 1844 investigative judgment have been shown the door by their Conference.
You sure won’t be told the true history behind the 1844 doctrine by SDA’s! Embarrassing false prophecies by EGW have been, altered, covered up, and locked up by the SDA’s. You won’t be told about them, but here are a couple. One false prophecy done in the name of the Lord marks that one as a false prophet (See Deut. chapter 18). Ellen G. White said people alive in 1856 would be translated at the 2nd coming of Jesus. (Testimonies, V1, p 131,132). She said in Testimonies for the Church, Volume 1, p. 259, that the United States would be “…humbled into the dust” by England during the Civil War. No wonder Jesus told us to “Beware of the false prophets”.
Time is their enemy. These false prophecies will never be mentioned by the SDA’s.
The cult links of the SDA
You won’t be told at the SDA Seminars about the things they have in common with the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons. SDA’s share their early history with the Jehovah’s Witnesses. An early Adventist, N. H. Barbour co-published with Charles Taze Russell. They had a falling out over (what else?) dates for the end of the world! (1844 and 1874), and parted company.
Both, however, kept heretical doctrines to this day like Jesus being Michael the Archangel, the denial of Hell, and both still advocate soul sleep. Both invented invisible occurrences in heaven for their failed dates for Christ’s visible return, investigative judgment for the SDA’s and Christ’s invisible “presence” for Jehovah’s Witnesses. There is Mormon link also for the SDA’s. It is a proven fact that Ellen G. White plagiarized most of her writings. The Church has been challenged by Walter Rea, author of the White Lie to prove that even 20% of her writings are original. They can’t. Their weak defense was that there were no copyright laws in Ellen’s day, so what she did was legal. You will never be told of her plagiarism by the SDA’s.
As Ellen was rising to prominence, Joseph Smith had just died. Her writings contain many phrases used by Joseph Smith. Mind you, he has also been accused of plagiarism. I have a thick file of similarities, but time does not permit details at this time, but it does illustrate just how far her “borrowing” went.
You will definitely not be told of her similarities to Joseph Smith at the Seminars!
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Compared with mainstream Christianity, SDA teachings are closer to the original teachings of the Saviour of the World by a long stretch. 99% of people who write about different religions and denominations know very little and this author is one of them.
Agreed. SDA is one of the closest to truth out of USA Denominations
Hardly, have you read in of ellen g whites books? i grew up an SDA , as soon as i read 1 of her books i knew she was a false prophet . tell me ,did she take the scripture back to the hebrew and greek ? Sorry but check it out ,i wouldn’t go by any man but first checking it out first to make sure it lines up with the word
II John 10 “If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
This is a very direct statement, and it is given as a warning.
i have read ALL of them, with which do you have a problem??? “Spirit of prophecy?” or perhaps “The Great Controversy” ? or maybe the one where it tells you exactly how to abide by Torah, is the nicest terms, and i like how you say “Word” with a small w. what are you like prince? eh? your grow up SDA and then one day you sing “all 7′s must die” eh?
hmph. not impressed.
EVERY CHRSITIAN DENOMINATION BELIEVES PAUL IS A HOLY APOSTLE OF GOD and ALL CHURCHES ARE FOUNDED SOLELY ON PAUL’S DOCTRINE
Where iis the church altar in Matthew and John? NO WHERE
The church altar was given by false apostle Pharisee Paul.
The dopey SDA’s big wig WALTER VEITH that SDA child of Hell, PAUL PAUL PAUL, well have a look at Pau:
Galatians 4:10-11 YOU OBSERVE DAYS, MONTHS, YEARS AND TIMES, I AM AFRAID OF YOU, LEST I HAVE BESTOWED MY LABOR UPON YOU IN VAIN
There is ANTI-CHRIST PAUL absolutely trashing the SDA’s Saturday worship, and Christinaity’s Sunday worship.
PAUL SAYS DO DTHE UECHARIST 24/7 IF YOU WANT, no days, months, times, years to observe
1 Cor. 11:26 Do the Eucharist as often as you want because every time you do you say Christ is dead until he comes back
Acts 9:3 “And as he ( Paul ) journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shine round about him a light from heaven:”
This flash of light from heaven struck Paul down on the road to Damascus. When God wants your attention, He is going to get it. It doesn’t matter whether you have “free will”, or “one of God election”.
Acts 9:15 “But the Lord said unto him, “Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:”
A chosen vessel for god!
In the 27 Fundamental Doctrines Book,(copyright 1988) of the Seventh-day Adventist church, on page 366, the writers imply that the term “bottomless pit” that John used in Revelation 20:1,3, describes the condition of the earth at that time, thus saying…. the earth is the “bottomless pit”. They also claim that “the earth is a scene of utter desolation” void of man, and will remain that way for a thousand years. (The Millinnium) This is not an accurate interpretation of the Scripture.
I decided to go to “The Great Controversy” by E.G. White and see what she had to say about the earth at this period in time, and there, is where we found something completely unacceptable, a deliberate and shameful deletion from God’s Holy Word! Leaving out, key words of verses, that she’s claiming to be quoting. It is obvious that she and/or the editors were changing context, to align with SDA Doctrine.
To evaluate this deletion for yourself, find a copy of “The Great Controversy”, go to the 15th paragraph, of the chapter called “The Earth in Ruins” or “Desolation Of The Earth”, depending on which copy you have, and compare her quotes on Isaiah 24: verses 1,3,5,6. She was using a King James Version of the Bible, and you should carefully compare each verse, using that same version of the Bible.
You will find that she quoted verses 1&3 word for word, but when she got to verses 5&6, she left out key words, which clearly disprove the SDA belief of an earth de-void of all men at Christs Second Coming….as the end of verse 6 clearly says! “and few men left”. There is absolutely no excuse for her deleting these words! This is called scripture twisting and it is unacceptable.
Isaiah 24:1,3 “Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.”
Jeremiah 25:33, “And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.”
He can’t tempt anyone because they are all DEAD! They are BIRD FOOD!
Remember what this angel said earlier?
Revelation 19:17-18, “And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.”
By the way… Will the birds be done eating?
Jeremiah 4:23-27, “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.”
http://www.remnantofgod.org/1000yr.htm
The seventh day of the week, known today as Saturday, is the eternal sign of Christ’s power as Creator, Sanctifier, and Redeemer and is, therefore, the Lord’s day; the true Christian Sabbath, constituting the seal of the living God. It is observed from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday. (Gen. 2:1-3; Ex. 16:24-31; 20:8-11; John 1:1-3,14; Eze. 20:12,20; Mark 1:21-32; 2:27,28; Isa. 58:13; Luke 4:16; 23:54-56; 24:1; Acts 17:2; Heb. 4:9-11; Isa. 66:22,23; Lev. 23:32; Rev. 7:1-8)
The SDA church is as much a part of Babylon as ALL of the other organized 501(3)c churches.
http://www.sdaapostasy.org/
While their historical teachings agreed with Scripture they fell into apostasy when they started teaching the Trinity and when they formulated a creed that one had to accept before being baptized.
For those gifted with the calling, those who through the Spirit of God have been given spiritual understanding, it is through Him we all fully accept and practice the Word and Laws of God. Throughout Satan’s many impostor religions the ten commandments are readily accepted as being valid and in effect, however the fourth commandment has been deemed unnecessary or fulfilled by the crucifixion of Christ. The truth couldn’t be farther from the truth. In fact attending God’s appointed time is critical. This is the time of His heightened presence where we are given through God’s Spirit our ability to see what is spiritual in nature. His spiritual guidance helps us in our own minds discern truth from fiction. That which is not of God rolls off our conscious acceptance like water off a ducks back. The point I want to make is that God’s weekly Sabbath is on the seventh day, Satan’s Churches worship on Sunday (sun-day) the first day of the week or exactly opposite of God’s Sabbath. Any guesses why that is? In case your baffled, it is because it is created by evil intending to pollute God’s instruction. It was cunningly devised to stumble and mislead those seeking to worship the One True God.
Exodus 16:25 “And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the Lord:to day ye shall not find it in the field. Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.”
Exodus 20:8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God:in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day:wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.”
God’s instruction is pretty clear. For those who believe this only applies to Israel and not the gentiles let me provide some insight. In the first passage the inclusion of the gentiles is obvious.
Acts 31:41 “Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish:for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you. And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas:who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you:but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.”
Rom 3:9 “What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise:for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
Rom 3:29 “Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:yea, we establish the law.”
THE SLAM DUNK PROOF THAT THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT APPLIES TO ALL IS IN 1 Cor 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
With that said I want to emphasize that I am in no way promoting the doctrine of the Seventh Day Adventists. I will agree that the SDA is not God’s One True Church and yes there is only one.
Ephes 4:4 “I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
The SDA practices Baal through the acceptance of Christmas, Easter and Sunday worship. Like with every good lie there exists an element of truth. This type of persuasive deception is prevalent throughout all Christendom. As not to confuse I will provide a breif explanation of Easter for the sake of example. First of all Easter replaces God’s require Holy day of Passover. Equally troubling is the fact the narrative removes from history the only proof Jesus provided the Pharisees that he was the Messiah.
Here’s what I mean; If Jesus were actually died on “Good Friday” just before evening and was then raised by God early Sunday morning according to God’s definition of a day this period fall ways short. This literally removes that solitary piece of evidence man was given that Jesus is in fact God’s Son. As with a majority of these cunning deceptions they covertly distract from, distort or demean God’s Word, His Son and His true plan for creating mankind. As I mentioned above, there is only one true Church that God works through. Sure here in Satan’s world there are many faiths to choose from. The thing to consider is that no matter how appealing God Yahweh isn’t part of them.
If you are so inspired you can listen to the weekly Sabbath services today both live and recorded at the Church website. It is called the Church of God PKG. It is a very special day for His Church. Because I don’t want to be mistaken for spam I am not providing a link. If what I said sparks an interest i you I am confident you know how to find and use the Google search engine. I pray for your calling!
Just-My-Opinion
Sorry I forgot to provide the scripture showing that a day starts at the close of the day or evening and then ends at dusk or evening, as the following day begins.
Gen 1:5 “And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.”
JMO
And He called the light DAY and the darkness He called NIGHT…
…and there came to be evening. And there came to be morning…
YOM ECHAD — Day One.
That verse says nothing about the day beginning when the day ends, JMAO.
The evening and the morning separate the Day from the Night. The night has no part of the day. Even your quote: ‘a day starts at the close of the day’ makes no sense.
The day begins when the day begins. It does not begin when the rabbis say it begins. Day does not begin in darkness. It begins and ends in light. The rabbis are inverters. Just like their god.
According to the Jews the Sabbath begins on Friday night and ends Saturday night. The same is true for the major holidays such as Passover, Sukkot, Shavuot, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, the fast day of Tisha B’Av, and Hanukkah and Purim. Look it up for yourself.
They believe that beginning the day with the evening is, in a metaphor of life itself as life begins in the darkness of the womb, then bursts into the brightness of the light and eventually settles into the darkness of the grave, which, in turn, is followed by a new dawn in the world-to-come.
As scripture writes it: “And there was evening and there was morning” God places the chronological order of the day as being darkness before light of day. He is after all the Creator and gets to define the schematic of His own creation. You are of course free to believe whatever you will. Believe it or not I am not in this forum trying to convince anyone of anything. If what I offer is accepted by another I provide the place where they can investigate further.
I kindly suggest that if you would better acquaint yourself with who it was God placed in charge of recording time and precisely how it was recorded in order to correctly calculate annual Holy Days then your opinion will change. I don’t mean to be abrasive but even though you are entitled to your opinion, you are wrong about when the day begins. I urge you to put this truism to the test! You are humble enough to accept when you’re wrong, right?
JMO
JMO
“According to the Jews the Sabbath begins on Friday night and ends Saturday night.”
Granted. But we’re discussing Scripture. We are only discussing the inverting Synagogue of Satan as a corollary.
“The same is true for the major holidays such as Passover, Sukkot, Shavuot, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, the fast day of Tisha B’Av, and Hanukkah and Purim. Look it up for yourself.”
Look what up, JMAO? The fact that when Scripture says ‘up’ the rabbis say ‘down’? That when Scripture says ‘left’ the rabbis say ‘right’? What is it you would like me to look up? Keep your eyes on the road.
“They believe that beginning the day with the evening is, in a metaphor of life itself as life begins in the darkness of the womb, then bursts into the brightness of the light and eventually settles into the darkness of the grave, which, in turn, is followed by a new dawn in the world-to-come.”
This sort of thing sways you? The day begins and ends in darkness only according to Anti-Christ doctrine, JMAO. The day begins and ends in LIGHT, according to our Creator Jesus Christ.
“As scripture writes it: “And there was evening and there was morning” God places the chronological order of the day as being darkness before light of day.”
There is light and there is darkness. The two are separated by the Cherubim – those represented atop the Ark of the Covenant. The Cherubim are the Evening and the Morning. The Cherubim are appointed to guard the space between what God has separated. Darkness was there when God created the Heavens and the Earth, but the creation was not brought to be in darkness. Darkness was upon the surface of the Abyss, just as God’s Spirit was upon the face of the waters. Darkness was doing the same thing God was doing – only an abominable version of it. God was generating the Light. Darkness was generating something also.
“He is after all the Creator and gets to define the schematic of His own creation.”
And He has defined it. Day comes first. He said so Himself. First there is Day. Then there is Evening. Then there is Morning. And the night gets no mention because the night is evil. Only the Light, which is Good, gets mention.
“Believe it or not I am not in this forum trying to convince anyone of anything.”
Most of us come here to discuss. We come here to test our beliefs and we come here to share what we believe we know. Isn’t that what we’re doing here? I’m not trying to win an argument with you, JMAO. I’m testing the mettle of my doctrine against yours.
“If what I offer is accepted by another I provide the place where they can investigate further.”
You provide? Is that so? The place where they can investigate further is within the written Word of God. So unless you’re passing out Bibles, you aren’t providing anything.
“I kindly suggest that if you would better acquaint yourself with who it was God placed in charge of recording time and precisely how it was recorded in order to correctly calculate annual Holy Days then your opinion will change.”
There’s the passive-aggressive JMAO we all know and love. Would you like to debate His Calendar with me? I will be honest with you – His Calendar happens to be one of my areas of specialty. How say you, friend?
“I don’t mean to be abrasive…”
Yes you do. But when you are, you should just be as you are and make no apologies for it. Someone pushes you, push back – conversationally speaking. I’m not in this to embarrass you. I’m in this to see what works and what doesn’t. Ant that really is the long and the short of it. I am abrasive, JMAO. And I make no bones about it. I do try to be fair, however.
“…you are wrong about when the day begins.”
That’s a meaningless statement. Your opinion is as useless a thing as my own. BRING EVIDENCE from the Word, JMAO. Otherwise, you might as well start your own religion and begin receiving the tithes and the glory for yourself.
“I urge you to put this truism to the test! You are humble enough to accept when you’re wrong, right?”
I have been shown to be in error twice this past month. Right here on BIN. I admit it immediately when it happens. I concede my opponent’s point and I then improve and strengthen my doctrine accordingly. That’s how we refine our armor, friend. But your saying a thing and your proving a thing are nothing of a kind. Prove it. Or pack it in. It’s that, or we better all go and find something else to do with our time.
Time to commence the Sabbath
lev 23:32
neh 13:19
luke 23:54
eze 46:1-2
lev 22:6-7
deut 23:11
judges 14:12
joshua 8:29
joshua 10:26-27
exodus 12:18
lev 23:5
numbers 9:3
Matthew 26:20
Deuteronomy 16:6
Matthew 8:16
mark 1:32
luke 4:40
Lots of evidence.
Hey Beef, is that you Walter? Either way bro your logic is erred but don’t let me interfere, hang on to the fruit of your superior intellect. My belief is that when one reads scripture and then compares what scripture says with the Jewish tradition passed down since biblical times the logic about the proper order is fully illuminated. Of course your interpretation of God’s Word backed up by your bully on the block grasp of spiritual things invalidates anything legitimate reasoning I might suggest.
You always seem to attack me with this passive aggressive character accusation. I would be so forward as to suggest that this is “projection” a psychological defense constructed out of a subconscious struggle for personal elevation. In my opinion you are uncertain in your own faith and find in necessary to validate yourself at the expense of others.
Let’s try to remember you and I do not know anything whatsoever about one another. It obvious that these type of adversarial exchanges benefit nobody. If you think that BIN provides you with exclusive rights to sell only your commentary or brand of truth, I suggest you’re a liitle beside yourself. If you wish to have a grown up interaction with me personally perhaps next time an ounce of humility and mutual respect would be appropriate. We don’t have to agree to be civil. Conversation is one thing kicking sand in the opposing view’s face is another. So far you’ve proven which you are better at.
Thanks for your input guy. It’s always entertaining if nothing else. I hold no grudge. Have a great week ahead,
JMO
PS Calling JMAO is classy, real classy!
Anonymous, the Messiah-cursing Jews have many traditions that are backwards.
Why is it that you think these Talmudists and Kabbalists have it right where everyone else has it wrong?
Is that how you imagine a just God to work?
(P.S. BEEF/WALTER is showing you the flaws in your/Jewish belief by quoting Scripture and you just seem to be content with putting the Jewish faith on a pedestal all while playing the part of the psychologist with your tacky straw man quips. Adding that narcissistic signature at the end of every comment doesn’t help your cause much in this regard either.)
JMAO wrote:
“Hey Beef, is that you Walter?”
BEEF was my original avatar before he was copied and slandered by an enemy. WALTER was a stand-by. Depending on circumstances beyond my control, I use various accounts. As you here demonstrate, I’m not that hard to identify.
“Either way bro your logic is erred but don’t let me interfere, hang on to the fruit of your superior intellect.”
Sarcasm. Vastly superior to passive/aggressive silliness. Excellent.
“My belief is that when one reads scripture and then compares what scripture says with the Jewish tradition passed down since biblical times…”
There’s your problem. Jewish tradition. It doesn’t fit. And we can hash this thing out right here if you want to. Jewish tradition is no more biblical that Catholic tradition. I am happy to support that contention with Scripture if you concede to participate.
“…the logic about the proper order is fully illuminated. Of course your interpretation of God’s Word backed up by your bully on the block grasp of spiritual things invalidates anything legitimate reasoning I might suggest.”
Mind your sentence structure there, JMAO. You became a bit incoherent at the end. Do I bully? I can see how an advocate for inferior arguments would see things that way. Strong arguments are difficult to overcome. But when an argument is IMPOSSIBLE to overcome, then the argument is truly a Biblical Argument. That’s my goal. Biblical Arguments. And no, I do not flatter myself by imagining my arguments are invulnerable Biblical Arguments. I think my arguments are strong. So if your arguments are strong, then they have a chance against my own. Are you strong enough to contend? Doesn’t sound like it, what with you whining about bullying and such.
“You always seem to attack me with this passive aggressive character accusation.”
When you employ that womanish tactic, I call you on it.
“I would be so forward as to suggest that this is “projection” a psychological defense constructed out of a subconscious struggle for personal elevation.”
No one who knows me would classify me as passive/aggressive. Aggressive, certainly. Not passive. I abhor mingled seed.
“In my opinion you are uncertain in your own faith and find in necessary to validate yourself at the expense of others.”
I’ve already told you what I think about opinion. I see you as a fairly strong combatant in the arena of spiritual training. (That was a compliment, JMAO.) But every time I try to engage you in spiritual or linguistic jiu-jitsu, you become enraged or you begin to complain. How about some knock-down-drag-out? This is training, friend. This isn’t actual combat. If you’re a seeker after the Way, then we’re actually on the same side. Tough goings for us ahead, so a little stiff sparing is in order. That’s how I see things.
“Let’s try to remember you and I do not know anything whatsoever about one another.”
Not exactly true, friend. You and I are both voluminous commentators on this site. I know a fair bit about you from reading your posts these many months. And I dare say you’ve read some of what I write.
“It obvious that these type of adversarial exchanges benefit nobody.”
Couldn’t agree with you less. When we stick to the topic, which is doctrine, then if we’re honest our doctrine will be improved. My doctrine has been improved over the years I’ve been posting here. It is WRESTLING with strong opponents – both believers and non-believers alike – that strengthens our faith and our knowledge of Scripture. Apparently you see things otherwise. But I suggest to you in the strongest of terms, that our time here is not wasted when we engage each other in debate. There is far more at stake here than just winning an argument, JMAO.
“If you think that BIN provides you with exclusive rights to sell only your commentary or brand of truth, I suggest you’re a liitle beside yourself.”
Would you listen to yourself, man? Why on Earth would you even think to say such a thing? You’re an effective writer and a competent communicator. MAKE YOUR CASE! If you find something objectionable about my views of Scripture, then object. But bring your support from the Word. You better be able to do that. That’s what we do here – for at least some of the time. Opinions get vaporized in the Light of the Word. We’re interested in REAL truth or we’re wasting time. If your idea of worthwhile endeavors is having your opinions about Scripture confirmed and patronized by other men, then you are interested only in vanity. Truth is something many of us scarcely comprehend.
“If you wish to have a grown up interaction with me personally perhaps next time an ounce of humility and mutual respect would be appropriate.”
Perhaps you should read between the lines. I’m not here to flatter or to mollycoddle. You came here and at once took FIRM and BOLD stands for your ideas. I have consistently challenged you on those ideas. But your ability or willingness to defend your ideas is always found lacking. Why is that, JMAO? Is it because I’m not cordial enough with you? Is it really that?
“We don’t have to agree to be civil.”
Where is incivility in my post to you? Either here or above? Where is it? You misread me often. Take for example THIS – you wrote:
“Calling JMAO is classy, real classy!”
But I already established elsewhere what JMAO means when I address you as such. You ignored me when I did. J-ust M-y A-nonymous O-pinion. Is there something insufferably classless or insulting about that acronym? Or do you see uncivilized phantoms where there are only shadows.
Amminadab,
Can’t you keep a thread straight? Order, friend. What’s wrong with order?
You will please to address my points to you below, yes? You made your case down there and I answered you. Now you rebut. I will not just continue to answer new material you introduce when you steadfastly refuse to acknowledge my specific treatment of your previous points.
One step at a time, please.
Amminadab,
I had a few minutes to address this list of yours, which supposedly shows ‘lots of evidence’ in support of your argument. There is nothing here that supports your case:
Leviticus 23:32
Day of Atonement ONLY. I have addressed this with you now THREE times.
Nehemiah 13:19
It began to grow dark on the day BEFORE the Sabbath. The gates were shut and remained shut overnight. Sabbath began at sunup.
Luke 23:54
And that day was the preparation, and the Sabbath drew on. (KJV)
For clarity, here is the second clause of Luke 23:54 in Greek:
καὶ = AND
σάββατον = SABBATH
ἐπέφωσκεν = epephōsken (verb, imperfect indicative active): DREW NEAR
Ezekiel 46:1-2
The gate is opened on the Sabbath and shut at evening. How does this help your argument?
Leviticus 22:6-7
Says nothing at all about when a day begins or ends.
Deuteronomy 23:11
Says nothing at all about when a day begins or ends.
Judges 14:12
And Samson said to them, “Let me now put a riddle to you. If you can tell me what it is, within the seven days of the feast, and find it out, then I will give you thirty linen garments and thirty changes of clothes…” (ESV)
Am I missing something here, Amminadab?
Joshua 8:29
Says nothing at all about when a day begins or ends.
Joshua 10:26-27
NOTHING….
Exodus 12:18
Deals with Passover, and says NOTHING at all about when a day begins or ends.
Leviticus 23:5
Where is it, Amminadab? Show me where your ‘Lots of evidence’ is.
I’m not finishing this list. If I’ve missed something crucial, then perhaps you would be kind enough to bring it to my attention. The parameters of our disagreement are clear enough. You know what you need to show from Scripture and this is most certainly not it. Try to imagine you had never been tainted by the rabbi’s lies. Then go to the Word and see whether you can determine when a day begins and when it ends. Think like a child. That’s how easy it is. The Babylonian Talmudists have had their way with you.
Meat-head Beef is actually meat-head Walter? What difference does that make? Both are pseudo-intellectual anti-Catholic bigots. What good is scholarship when it serves the nothingness of evil?
You didn’t really think there were two of my, Lou. You just weren’t paying attention. Per usual.
Our convention of starting a new day at midnight is an arbitrary, humanly devised practice. God, who created the heavenly bodies and set them in motion to mark the passage of time (Genesis 1:14), counts time differently—from evening to evening.
We see this indicated in the creation account in Genesis 1. After dividing day from night, God tells us that “the evening and the morning were the first day” (Genesis 1:5). “Evening” is mentioned first, followed by “morning.” God describes each day’s creation in similar terms (Genesis 1:8, Genesis 1:13, Genesis 1:19, Genesis 1:23, Genesis 1:31).
In the Bible, evening began when the sun went down (Joshua 8:29; 2 Chronicles 18:34; Nehemiah 13:19; Mark 1:32), and at that time a new day began. Regarding His Sabbaths, God commands that they be observed “from evening to evening” (Leviticus 23:32). This was the usual way at that time of calculating the beginning and ending of days (Exodus 12:18).
In New Testament times, days were calculated the same way. Mark 1:32 records that, after the sun had set, marking the end of one Sabbath, crowds brought many ailing people to Jesus to be healed, having waited until after the Sabbath to come to Him. The Gospel accounts also record that Joseph of Arimathea entombed Jesus’ body before evening to keep from working on an approaching annual high-day Sabbath (Matthew 27:57-60; Mark 15:42-46; Luke 23:50-54; compare John 19:31).
God, Creator of the Sabbath, determines when the day begins and ends, and it was observed from sunset to sunset throughout the Bible. His Sabbath begins Friday evening at sunset and ends Saturday evening at sunset.
Amminadab wrote:
“God… …counts time differently—from evening to evening.”
There is only ONE occasion in Scripture when He does so – and that is for the Day of Atonement. You lack a confirming witness. And since He only does so once, and since He takes particular pains to say so specifically about that one annual occasion, we can show plainly that it is the exception and not the rule.
“After dividing day from night, God tells us that “the evening and the morning were the first day” (Genesis 1:5).”
Exactly. FIRST the work of the day. THEN the evening. THEN the night cometh when no man can work. THEN comes morning. And the cycle then repeats. What am I missing, Amminadab?
““Evening” is mentioned first, followed by “morning.””
No. Very plainly DAY is mentioned first. THEN evening.
“In the Bible, evening began when the sun went down…”
Which only a fool would argue. How is it then that the Day and the evening begin at the same time, according to you? That’s when Night begins. Not Day. It’s an inversion. And Scripture never says otherwise. Again, unless I’m missing something crucial.
“Regarding His Sabbaths, God commands that they be observed “from evening to evening”…”
That’s an erroneous statement, Amminadab. You know He specifies only ONE particular Sabbath – and that is the Sabbath during which ALL BONDS are made to be broken. ALL. Even the bond of when the Sabbath begins. It’s the exception. Not the rule. Not? Then find confirming witness for it.
“This was the usual way at that time of calculating the beginning and ending of days (Exodus 12:18).”
That verse says nothing about when a day begins. The Passover meal is eaten at the going down of the Sun. That meal is to be eaten with unleavened bread. Following day begins the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Day and Night have nothing to say for themselves in that passage. You’re adding to the Word.
“Mark 1:32 records that, after the sun had set, marking the end of one Sabbath, crowds brought many ailing people to Jesus to be healed, having waited until after the Sabbath to come to Him.”
Nothing doing, my good man. Sabbath begins and ends when the day begins and ends. Sabbath is not a 24 hour observance (Day of Atonement being the exception). It is true they came to Him to be healed when the Sabbath ended. But this does nothing to support your case. Sabbath begins at sunup and ends at sundown. They could have come to Him ON the Sabbath to be healed, but they were ignorant of the Spirit of Law.
“The Gospel accounts also record that Joseph of Arimathea entombed Jesus’ body before evening to keep from working on an approaching annual high-day Sabbath (Matthew 27:57-60; Mark 15:42-46; Luke 23:50-54; compare John 19:31).”
Matthew 27:57-60 does nothing to make your case. And THIS is a huge problem for you:
Mark 15:42
And WHEN EVENING HAD COME, since it was the day of Preparation, that is, THE DAY BEFORE the Sabbath… (ESV)
Try a different translation?
And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day BEFORE the Sabbath… (KJV)
One more?
When evening had already come, because it was the preparation day, that is, the day BEFORE the Sabbath… (NASB)
GREEK:
Καὶ ἤδη ὀψίας γενομένης, ἐπεὶ ἦν Παρασκευή, ὅ ἐστιν προσάββατον…
Καὶ = AND ἤδη = ALREADY ὀψίας = EVENING γενομένης = HAVING ARRIVED, ἐπεὶ = SINCE ἦν = IT WAS [THE] Παρασκευή = PREPARATION, ὅ = THAT ἐστιν = IS προσάββατον = [THE DAY] BEFORE THE SABBATH…
Now evening HAD COME. No getting around it. That means, according to you that a new day had just begun and that it was indeed the Sabbath. But very plainly we see in the Word that is NOT what is written.
“God, Creator of the Sabbath, determines when the day begins and ends, and it was observed from sunset to sunset throughout the Bible.”
This statement is shown to be false by the above evidence, and the evidence given to us in the opening chapter of Genesis, in addition to the various clues left for us throughout the Scriptures.
Because Walter, I mean Beef challenges my opinions but for some unknown reason blocks my ability to directly respond to him I will express my comment in support of Amminadab’s knowledge right here. Good job bro, I could not have represented God’s Word better myself!
We must all pray for Beef. Walter contends that he is trying to strengthen his scriptural understanding through debate yet nearly every single time someone provides solid scriptural argument he is incapable of accepting it. The argument merely intensifies. Beef this is why I refuse to engage you as you’ve suggested. What would be the benefit? Why throw pears before swine. I’m not calling you a pig but partaking in these conversations with those embracing false doctrine is totally nonproductive. I’m never going to change their minds and debating God’s Truth with them is futile, it wastes valuable time that could be better utilized elsewhere.
For your sake I pray all of disciples here on BIN understand that God says the intellect of man is foolishness. I would caution all about adopting any version of truth that originates in opinion, my own included, it is after all your salvation at stake. Prove all things through God’s Spirit. Repent of sin and then pray for guidance.
Be patient, God calls into fellowship and answers prayer in His time, not ours.
Remember what scripture says. 1 Cor 2:14 “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:for they are foolishness unto him:neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” In other words it takes far more than the simple ability to read then rationalize using human intellect the written word in order to decipher the withheld mysteries of God. His Spirit must be the guiding force and sadly this is not always the case. We as men have the tendency to fill in the blanks ourselves when God’s Spirit is not present. This is where confusion is birthed.
Walter, I’m guessing you don’t have a degree in psychology. You keep using the term passive-aggressive derogatorily, using it as a degrading insult. For future reference The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders describes the passive aggressive personality disorder as a pervasive pattern of negativistic attitudes and passive resistance to demands for adequate performance in social and occupational situations.
I will concede that trying to consistently remain cordial and respectful while communicating opposing views or opinions is often difficult for prideful man and believe it or not I’m one of them! As I’ve mentioned time and again I am a sinner just like you. Sadly strong opinion often conjures a defensive posturing that interferes with a more honest or uninhibited interaction. I am not exempt from error and may not come across as I should all the time, nevertheless the doctrine I offer is rooted in scriptural correctness.
Not attempting to justify any prior error, if I have on occasion missed my mark, misspoke or responded to others in an insensitive way, it is to my regret. I am not a professional journalist so unfortunately I do not always articulate as adequately as I would prefer. I am also equipped with human emotion, a feature that boils over on occasion as well. Perfection is not in me. For those times I’ve failed in my well meaning objective I offer my sincere apology.
Walter, my objective by making comments in this forum is not to debate conflicting opinion. I understand that is precisely the type of interaction you seek and that’s all good. My intention though is to put God’s Truth out there for the consumption of those God is now calling. I’m sure you agree, the information pool has been tainted. If God has opened their minds and they accept His Truth, too cool. If not it’s and readers prefer another take offered by another poster that’s cool too. It is after all between them and God. I have no power or divine authority to do more.
Not holding my breath that you will change your views, as you appear set in your beliefs, I honestly pray for your enlightenment. I yearn to call you brethren. Believe it or not your salvation is important to me. I can see you have devoted much time and thought into what you believe. That conviction although in my opinion may be misplaced is commendable.
The truth is no matter how inappropriate it is I would love to debate you on each and every issue but fact is I have not been commissioned to be a teacher of others. God holds teachers to a higher standard. I am instead a student of the Word. If you honestly want to know what I believe, and how that compares to what you believe that is entirely possible. I urge you to do so. I assure you God’s Church relies on a solid scriptural bases to support all their beliefs.
Beef, if you’re not all talk my friend and you honestly are allowing your faith to expand with these arguments you are more than welcome to visit God’s Church. It is called the Church of God PKG. Google it. The website has recordings of past services available as well as a section defining the Churches doctrine. If you choose not to take advantage of this opportunity to conduct a comparative analysis that’s your choice. Either way we can put this kind of unproductive exchange behind us.
Wishing you the best,
JMO
PS If you have questions after reviewing the site, or need guidance navigating through it there is a link for contacting the Church.
“Walter contends that he is trying to strengthen his scriptural understanding through debate yet nearly every single time someone provides solid scriptural argument he is incapable of accepting it.”
Vain, anonymous, and I find your ignorance a bit cartoonish. A solid scriptural argument for what you hereby profess has been made only in your vain imagination.
So you wasted how much time putting together that long-winded diatribe about BEEF’s character without touching on your “solid scriptural argument?
Weak and pathetic, JMAO. Stop trying to pimp your website and defend your beliefs right here for everyone to see.
JMAO wrote:
“…but for some unknown reason blocks my ability to directly respond to him…”
I do what now? Do I have some supernatural control over this website, JMAO? Which phantoms are haunting you now?
“…every single time someone provides solid scriptural argument he is incapable of accepting it.”
Because I say the day begins when the day begins, and not when it ends, I need your prayers? So be it. I hope you do pray.
“…it wastes valuable time that could be better utilized elsewhere.”
And yet… here you are.
“…God says the intellect of man is foolishness.”
Which I agree with whole-heartedly, and say so frequently on these boards.
“You keep using the term passive-aggressive derogatorily, using it as a degrading insult.”
Calling attention to poor tactics is not the same as insulting, JMAO. I could tell you the sky is blue and you would resent my statement as somehow detracting from you. Your skin is about as thick as Saran Wrap, is it not?
“…difficult for prideful man and believe it or not I’m one of them!”
Believe I believe it, JMAO.
“As I’ve mentioned time and again I am a sinner just like you.”
Thanks awfully for clarifying that. Had you said nothing, I would never have known. (Pardon sarcasm, please) The question is this: Do you well and truly believe that you are prideful and a sinner? Well and truly, JMAO? Or are you just talking the talk?
“Sadly strong opinion often conjures a defensive posturing that interferes with a more honest or uninhibited interaction.”
No it doesn’t. Strong opinion invites TESTING from outside sources. If your opinion is informed, then your opinion can be defended and you will defend it. If your opinion is fatuous, then your opinion will collapse when confronted with strong arguments, and you will huff and puff and wax psychiatric. For all the talking you do, you don’t do much apologetic. You don’t defend your opinions. You only defend your own feelings. Think about that some time.
“I am not exempt from error…”
The very fact you find these things about you need to be explained, speaks volumes. Volumes, JMAO.
“…the doctrine I offer is rooted in scriptural correctness.”
THAT is what we do here. We put that claim to the test. You bear witness of yourself and your witness is therefore useless. Come and let us put these things to the test. Let us subject each other’s doctrine to the SWORD and see what can withstand the onslaught.
“Not attempting to justify any prior error, if I have on occasion missed my mark, misspoke or responded to others in an insensitive way, it is to my regret.”
These things happen. And they will continue to happen. You are very preoccupied with these things. I would much rather be having another conversation with you. And it need not be adversarial at all.
“Walter, my objective by making comments in this forum is not to debate conflicting opinion.”
Why isn’t it? Why shouldn’t it be? At least for part of the time. You come here to spread what you believe is the Good News. I suggest to you, just as you do to me, that your interpretation of the Good News is wanting. I suggest we examine these things to SEE what is what. This is no vain pastime for which I advocate. This is doing PRECISELY as we have been instructed to do: to PROVE all things. We could accomplish good things here if we got past this hang-up of yours.
“My intention though is to put God’s Truth out there for the consumption of those God is now calling.”
And you think you’re right. But you won’t bear the test. Why?
“Not holding my breath that you will change your views, as you appear set in your beliefs, I honestly pray for your enlightenment.”
Careful with that word. I’ll make a deal with you: Consent to debate me on a topic of your choosing, and I will likewise do as you ask in some regard. If you wish for me to adopt a more civil and cordial tone with ALL contributors on this site (or only with you) perhaps, then I will agree. (Though I don’t think it necessary, just as you do not think testing is necessary.)
“I yearn to call you brethren. Believe it or not your salvation is important to me.”
I don’t address anyone on these boards who I cannot say the same thing about.
“I can see you have devoted much time and thought into what you believe. That conviction although in my opinion may be misplaced is commendable.”
If something is out of place, then you would be a brother indeed if you would demonstrate as much with Scripture. Demonstrate and prevail throughout my rebuttal and answers. Simply producing a verse which may or may not say what you suggest it does, is not what I mean. I mean engaged and sustained dialogue until we have finished our line of inquiry. That is how we demonstrate the truth of a matter, JMAO. We do not properly demonstrate truth by sharing our personal opinions.
“The truth is no matter how inappropriate it is I would love to debate you on each and every issue but fact is I have not been commissioned to be a teacher of others.”
EXCELLENT!!! I am here doing as I do because I likewise am no teacher. I have taken the warning of the Apostle James to heart. I do not write books or articles. I do not BEGIN these conversations. I only participate when the openings present themselves. I am a student, JMAO. That is all. We are apprentices with (perhaps) the same Master. We as students testify to others not by preaching at them, but by showing them the strength of the Word as it withstands examination or even assault. If our word is in accord with the Word of God, then our word is His Word and, as such, will always prevail. People RESPOND to that when they see it. Self-described atheists and agnostics RESPOND to that. They have responded. I can name witnesses who are regulars on these boards.
“I am instead a student of the Word.”
Are you? Then are you obedient to the Word?
1 Peter 3:15
…but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a DEFENSE to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you…
DEFENSE = ΑΠΟΛΟΙΑΝ, that is APOLOGIAN. An apology, JMAO.
[An "apology" in classical times had nothing to do with saying, "I'm sorry," but rather was a reasoned argument (defense) that presented evidence (SUPPLIED COMPELLING PROOF).] (HELPS Word-Studies)
To supply compelling proof, JMAO. Whence cometh compelling proof? If it comes from someplace other than the written Word of God, it does not compel.
So I ask you again: ARE YOU a student of the Word?
“Beef, if you’re not all talk my friend and you honestly are allowing your faith to expand with these arguments you are more than welcome to visit God’s Church.”
I am VERY well-acquainted with the Armstrong splinter groups. VERY well-acquainted, JMAO. And for the record, THEY are not being asked for an apologetic. You are being asked. The Apostle Peter said specifically – to anyone who asks YOU. I am asking you, JMAO. I do not ask your church.
I looked at the COG-PKG w/s, as instructed.
Their founder and principal buffoon, Mr Ronald Weinland, speaks for himself on many occasions; here is one of the more egregious examples of his pronouncements.
Avoid.
“…2009, January 31: The Church of God – PKG undergoes a 2-day fast, no food or water. The members are instructed to pray for death and disaster via an increase in intensity of the “thunders” so that more would be humbled so they could be saved….”
Those with a perverse interest in the various follies perpetrated by people who possibly start out sincerely, but who are highjacked along the way by money and an increasingly flamboyant lifestyle, will be interested to read the entire account of this man’s journey through the valley of the shadow of death.
I am not concerned about being mistaken for spam, so I have provided the link.
http://ronaldweinland.info/falseprophet/biography/
Reads like a carbon-copy of every other self-appointed, self-exalted Grand Poobah who founded or wormed his way to the top of some religious organization or other.
Throughout time God’s apostles and prophets have been similarly mocked. I am not in any manor provoked by your views, nor did I intend to agitate you with mine. I am sorry I have offended you through offering my personal opinions and belief.
I suppose your right in assuming that only those who agree with you should be afforded equal opportunity to speak. Perhaps your god will forgive me for ignoring the oppression and offering opposing truth. Bud, you and I need not stoop to childish name calling and disrespect in order to voice our opposing views in this open forum. We are both adults, right? I will be looking forward to more productive conversation in the future.
God Bless,
JMO
Passive-aggressive, JMAO. That’s a form of dishonesty. Take an honest bite out of an opponent who has affronted you. It’s okay to do. You can do it according to the Word. You can do it as a brother in Messiah.
I didn’t insult you. I insulted a man who is not worthy of you.
He is not worthy of you, JMAO.
Those defending their beliefs or attacking the faith of others with ridiculous distortions define themselves as the offspring of their father the devil. It’s totally okay for you not to accept the doctrine of the Church of God PKG or believe Ronald Weinland is who he claims to be and that’s fine, but to outright fabricate is pretty telling of who you represent.
The fact is yes, there was a Church-wide fast, and again yes it is the desire of those in the Church that God’s plan goes forward, they anticipating the return of Jesus Christ. As scripture tells it the great tribulation must occur before that happens. To suggest that parishioners prayed for death and disaster is a gross manipulation of the truth. As I said before believe as you wish but please at least try to stick to the facts in the process. Leave the smear campaigns to politicians. I am confident God’s Church will forgive the slander, no need for an apology dude.
JMO
You don’t deserve an apology, JMO, because interested folk can simply visit HereAmI’s link and fact check themselves silly.
False Profits abound and Weinland isn’t anything special
The historical beliefs that were first agreed upon back in 1872 were Scriptural. Since then they have been changed.
Ellen White wrote that they would change and that the SDA church would become part of Babylon.
The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would beFundamental Principles Error accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced.”(Ellen White Selected Messages bk.1, p. 204 written in 1904)
For those that consider themselves SDAs I suggest you compare the following :
http://www.thethirdangelsmessage.com/fundamental_principles.php
With the corrupt 28 Fundamental Beliefs held today.
SDA gets the Sabbath wrong every month and so do all the other Christian religions ! The Sabbath is determined by observing the moon,not a calendar ! Every month the Sabbath changes days. Almost everybody has it wrong. http://www.eifiles.cn/os-en.htm
ACCCCTUALLY NO, the moon, xD if you go by the moon, you sometimes hav 9 day weeks, or 6 day, its the Day its always been ya wally./ look, how many people did the RCC burn to death at the stake in the 1600′s for being “judaisers” ??? hmmm? they burnt them to death for keeping Sabbath on SATURDAY, not moon day, so, ill go with the millions that died in the belief its THAT day, and they fact rome decrees it, your just a rebel , lunar sabbath my ass, thats an ancient babylonian practise, and o prey tell, how do you bring unity and truth with such a divisive notion?? lunar sabbath,. PAH,,, ITS A THEORY PROMOTED BY JESUITS YA DINGBAT GO READ A BOOK
Well, the weekly Sabbath is one of God’s appointed times in Leviticus 23. All current calendars are pagan in origin — even the Masoretic which names the fourth month after a Babylonian deity. THAT IS AN ABOMINATION! The truth was discovered with the Dead Sea Scrolls; see http://www.haderech.info/DSS/Calendar/QumranCalendar.pdf. This was employed by the sect called “The Way” in Acts and inappropriately called Essenes (=pious ones) by Josephus, a self-described Pharisee. Shema Yisrael!
And you’re habitually a little stingy with the details, Monsieur Schuetz. So what say you? According to the DSS Calendar, which day is the Seventh Day?
Saturday Sabbath is Biblical. Sunday worship was originally a pagan sun worship day (thus the day’s name), it was hijacked by the Roman church, as was christamas, and easter. The roman church still teaches that they changed the Sabbath with no Biblical justification and (according to them) this, and the fact that most other Christian Churches follow along. proves that their Church is more powerful than Biblical Law. Jesus said, “Full well ye reject the Commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.” Mark 7:9. Jesus also said, I come not to change the Law but to fulfill it. Faith – yes… repentance – yes… pray for forgiveness – yes. Sunday worship will only become the “mark of the beast” when the anti-Christ declares it as mandatory… beware doing that!!
I know the Sabbath is the seventh day and that is Saturday. I also know no man (Pope) has authority to change what Yahweh has established.
There is more wrong with the Christian churches than just Sunday, also the establishing of Christmas and Easter as pagan holidays.
Messianic teaching is about as close as one can get to true first century Christianity before it was corrupted.
AHmein
The fact that Christ resurrected from the dead on Easter Sunday morning more than authoritatively establishes Sunday as the Sabbath. All popes do is recognize and honor this reality.
what
And he shall speak great words against the most High, …and think to change times and laws:” Daniel 7:25
“The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority.” Canon and Tradition, p. 263
“Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” -James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 ed.), pp. 72, 73.
“The Catholic church,” declared Cardinal Gibbons, “by virtue of her divine mission changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.” Catholic Mirror Sept. 23 1983. (Official organ of Cardinal Gibbons)
Question – Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer – Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Question – Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer – We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd ed.
“The Bible says, Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic church!” Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, History of the Sabbath, p. 802
“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. “The day of the Lord” was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church’s sense of its own power …. People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become Seventh-day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” (Saint Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.)
“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles …. From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.” (Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August, 1990.)
The Almighty says in the Old Testament…
Exodus 20:8-11, “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.”
He then says in the New Testament…
Hebrews 4:4,8,9 “For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.”
Amminadab — Beef — both heretic apostate bigoted wind-bag nobodies. Not stupid, just sick.
Jesus tells us in the Padgett Messages that because of his coming God’s Divine Love is now readily available to us, which by longing to the Father for it, will allow the Holy Spirit to bring it into our soul.
And that we have to long directly to the Father for His Divine Love. That we are not just divine, we are of natural love, and living it imperfectly being born into sin and evil; and yet we can at any time choose to wilfully long for the Divine Love and to be as our Heavenly Father is – perfect.
Our souls are mortal, we are not apparently – as told to us in The Urantia Book and Padgett Messages – naturally immortal. And yet by partaking of the Divine Love which is immortal we are then assured immortality on a soul and personality level. As the Padgett Messages inform us, we are transformed – gradually – from being of image of God into becoming of the essence of God upon receiving into our soul the Divine Love.
If we don’t partake of the Divine Love, then even though we might exist in the spirit mansion worlds in our natural love for a very long time, still there is nothing to say that it will be forever, and the potential will always exist for us and our being in our natural love state to no longer exist. However with the Divine Love included in and becoming part of and then eventually all of our soul, we are guaranteed survival forevermore.
Most of us don’t understand we actually have a serious choice to make concerning our soul and personality survival. And it’s not a matter of just ‘believing in Jesus’. It’s as Jesus tells us in the Padgett Messages about our obtaining the Divine Love in our soul, and if we don’t do that, then still our survival or universal existence is not assured.
The good thing is it’s relatively easy to long for and then receive the Divine Love. Many people have done it and now have some Divine Love within their soul yet without fully realising what they’ve done, but that truth will be made more available to them when they begin their spirit lives.
In the mansion worlds a great separation exists (re: The Padgett Messages) between those people still wanting to live with only their natural love, these people going to live in (and being confined to) worlds 2,4 and 6 and living mostly according to the desires of their mind. And those people wanting to embrace the Divine Love, heal their soul of their evilness and eventually move beyond the mansion worlds into the Celestial spheres working their way up through worlds 3, 5 and 7. World 1 is where we all arrive and begin our new life in spirit.
So it doesn’t matter what your religious beliefs are, if you’re not longing for the Divine Love, if you’ve not received any of it into your soul, then you’re not on your way to becoming divine. The Divine Love – God’s Love, is what we all need… at some point.
To long for the Divine Love simply let yourself long to God for His Divine Love. Just how you might long for anything you want, decide that you really want God’s Divine Love, and then long to God for it. Longing is our natural asking for the Love, it is our true desire, and the longing is empowering or activating our will – put your whole heart and desire (will) into it.
During your prayers or meditations – or at any time: whilst walking, driving, in the bath, on the loo, whenever you have a moment, focus on your longing and desire to have God’s Love and in your soul, and long to God for His or Her (our Heavenly Mother) or Their (our Mother and Father) Divine Love. You may feel the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) coming around you and delivering the Divine Love into your soul. It’s a wonderful feeling, almost as if you are ‘breathing’ it deep into yourself. But we don’t have to do anything other than long, and you will feel it moving of its own accord into your heart and soul.
You can support your longing, which by the way happens very quickly and is hard to sustain for any length of time, with mental prayers, such as: Please my Heavenly Father, I want your Divine Love. I am longing to Your for it, please fill my soul with Your Divine Love – please love me and make me feel loved by You.
Many people only pray using their minds, and all such prayers go unheard, irrespective of what one might think or believe. Only heartfelt prayers that engage and involve a whole-hearted longing are heard and responded to, although not always in the ways we might like such desires to be fulfilled.
For more information about the Divine Love, why we all need it, and how to obtain it, read the Padgett Messages or browse Divine Love Spirituality:
http://divinelovesp.weebly.com/my-free-books-and-free-padgett-messages.html
The SDA have FEARSOME defenders. Ellen G. Whites Books are no longer prophetic books, but history textbooks, for everything she said, has come to pass, except the great Persecution. which, i see, begins here. dont worry, the angel of death will give you plenty reasons to hate Adventists, specially since he will not go near them, but will troll everyone else, and by their exclusion from torment, you lot will hate them even more, and they will be fearsomely persecuted, and called “terrorists” because they support the greatest terrorist of all, MikaEl, Daniel 12:1.
YOUR PRAYERS ARE AN ABOMINATION:
Pro_28:9 He who turns away his ear from hearing the Torah, Even his prayer is an abomination1. Footnote: 1See also 15:29, Isa. 59:1-2, John 9:31, 1 John 3:22.
NOW READ THIS YOU FILTHY HEATHENS:
Sabbath (Seventh Day of the Week)
This day was blessed and set apart by Elohim at creation (Ber. 2:2-3 / Gen_2:2-3). Later on it was instituted as the sign of the everlasting covenant between Elohim and His people, a sign that He sets them apart, an everlasting sign (Shem. 31:13-17 / Exo_31:13-17, Yeḥez. 20:12-20 / Eze_20:12-20). Sabbath-keeping is one of the Ten Words of the Covenant, standing forever, settled forever in heaven, founded forever (Teh. 89:34 / Psa_89:34, Teh. 111:8-9 / Psa_111:8-9, Teh. 119:89 / Psa_119:89). We would like to point out the following:
(1) יהושע kept the Sabbath (Luk_4:16, Yn. 15:10 / Joh_15:10), and the women who were taught by Him still kept it at the time of Messiah’s burial (Luk_23:56).
(2) Sha’ul kept it (Act_13:14, Act_13:42-44, Act_7:2, Act_18:4 & Act_18:11).
(3) Ludia and the women kept it (Act_16:13).
(4) In Heb_4:9 we are again reminded of the necessity of keeping the Sabbath!
(5) Finally: After the end-time judgment has come upon this earth (Yesh. 66), and a new heavens and a new earth is established, we read in Yesh. 66:23 Isa_66:23 that the Sabbath shall still be kept!
(6) Who then changed it to Sunday, in effect nullifying it? In Dan_7:25 we read of a horn, a sovereign (remember: in those days the gentiles regarded their sovereigns as deities). This one is often interpreted as being the Anti-Messiah, the enemy of the Chosen People. In Dan_7:25 we read that he would “intend to change appointed times (or, festivals) and law.” The RCC openly boast that they changed the Sabbath to Sunday. This change was preceded by Emperor Constantine legislating, in the year 321, that “the venerable day of the Sun” was to be kept as a day of rest. Remember: Constantine was a worshipper of Sol Invictus, the sun-deity. The “Church” soon followed suit, and in the year 336 (some give the date as 364), at the Council of Laodicea, Canon 29, the christians were commanded to observe the Sunday as well. Bishop Eusebius (270-338 CE), who worked with Constantine, admits to the Church’s decision to change from Sabbath to Sunday.
AND:
Seven-fold Message of Revelation
Although the Book of Revelation contains much of what is still to come, certain fundamental teachings are found in it. One revelation that comes through very clearly is the definition of the True Worship, which is given in 7 places – the number of perfection. The True Worship rests on two fundamental principles, and the True Worshipper has to comply with these two requirements: To guard the commands of יהוה, and to believe in יהושע! We read this in Rev_12:17 and in Rev_14:12, and also in Rev_15:2-3 where the overcomers are described as those who sing the song of Mosheh (the Law) and the song of the Lamb (יהושע). Now for the other four witnesses: “Word,” “Command” and “Teaching” are very often used as parallel words, or synonyms, or interchangeably. See this for yourselves in Teh. 119:142, 151 & 160 / Psa_119:142, Psa_119:151, Psa_119:160. Compare also Teh. 119:105 / Psa_119:105 with Mish. 6:23 / Pro_6:23, and read Mish. 13:13 / Pro_13:13 as well. So let us look at these other four witnesses, in the light of what we have discussed. We find these other four witnesses in Rev_1:2, Rev_1:9, Rev_6:9 and Rev_20:4 – a total of seven perfect witnesses in the Book of Revelation!
IF YOU GO TO CHURCH ON SUNDAY , YOUR A CATHOLIC. SIMPLE AS THAT:
Statements made by the Roman Catholic Church about the Sabbath
“Most Christians assume that Sunday is
the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it
transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Sat
urday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change
was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of
Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its
teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.”
— Rome’s Challenge immaculateheart.com/maryonline Dec 2003.
“Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not
the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from
Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification
of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.”
— James Cardinal Gibbons,
The Faith of Our Fathers
(1917 edition), p. 72-73 (16th Edition, p 111; 88th Edition, p. 89).
“For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles order
ed that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible.”
—
Catholic Virginian
, October 3, 1947, p. 9, article “To Tell You the Truth.”
Who Made Sunday Holy?
“Written by the finger of God on two tables of stone, this Divine code (ten commandments) was received from the Almighty by Moses amid the thunders of Mount Sinai…Christ resumed these Commandments in the double precept
of charity–love of God and of the neighbour; He proclaimed them as binding under the New Law in Matthew 19 and
in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5)…
The (Catholic)Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest
from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as
the day to be kept holy as the Lord’s Day…He (God) claims one day out of the seven as a memorial to Himself, and
this must be kept holy…” —
The Catholic Encyclopaedia
, vol. 4, “The Ten Commandments”, 1908 edition by Robert Appleton Company;
and 1999 Online edition by Kevin Knight, Imprimatu r, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.
>: GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
“Question: How prove you that the church had power to command feasts and holydays?
“Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of
and therefore they fondly contradict themselves by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other
feasts commanded by the same church.
“Question: Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?
“Answer: Had she not such power, she could not a done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; -she
could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the
seventh day of the week, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.”
— Stephen Keenan,
A Doctrinal Catechism On
the Obedience Due to the Church
, 3rd edition, Chapter 2, p. 174 (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, Archbishop of New York)
GO ARGUE WITH THE POPE YOU FILTHY KRI-SATYANS!
ALLLLLL SUNDAY XTIANS ARE SATANISTS BY DEFINITION.
FOR THEY “DO WHAT THEY WANT, UNDER GRACE”
I understand the selection of the first day, of the week, is an arbitrary construct of man. Scripture does not name the days aside from a poetic interpretation of the Genesis account. Like Heaven & Earth day, Sky day, Dry Land day etc etc and on to the 7th day Rest.
Originally the order was decided by empirical decree (Roman Emperor) and later changed by order of the Church of Rome and quite frankly i wouldn’t trust either of them to tell me the time of day let alone whether or not my butt is on fire.
The Greeks named the Theon hemerai – “days of the Gods” – after the Sun, Moon, Ares, Hermes, Zeus, Aphrodite, and Cronus.
The Romans used the same structure but changed the names to reflect their gods – Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, and Saturn.
The Germanic peoples did likewise – Sun, Moon, Tiu, Woden, Thor, Freya and Saturn.
I don’t want to argue for any of those and am suspicious of allowing convention to inadvertently steer me away from the narrow path. What if we’re all wrong and the sabbath isn’t saturday or sunday? All we do know is it’s the 7th day and by accepting that limitation circular arguing about it becomes pointless.
I am an unashamed SDA. To my knowledge E.G. White upheld the Bible Scriptures and admonished the church many times throughout her life. A Church does not save anyone. “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.” Faith without works is dead, but works alone will save no one. My goal is to live according to the light I am given from the Bible.. and the Bible only. A personal relationship with Jesus is the best way to remain above all reproach. The scriptures tell us everything we need to know and do. As followers of Christ we must realize that the best way to do that is to love our neighbors.. and pray for each other. The arguments about the Sabbath are not going to help anyone.
Since the scriptures teach that all churches and sects/denominations and all other religions are false, and that the scriptures clearly indicate that no one who is part of any of those religions can be Christian, then I’d say the SDA’s are lying.
You would be THE expert on lying sects claiming to follow Christ.
There are millions of experts on lying sects and false Christianity, called Christendom. Then there’s you as well.
Mostly we are all experts on God’s word. It’s our job to teach it. Glad I ceased being part of any sect many years ago and joined the Christian Congregation. It’s the only truth on Earth.
You are part of the JWs church Savage. A sect of the Seventh Day Adventists founded by a master mason who failed at every prophesy and prediction he made.
Charles Taze Russell was a liar who appeared to be more interested in fluffing himself up and furthering his church than “dealing in truth”.
Sounds like you both have a lot in common.
BAPTIST: “There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday…. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week…. Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament~absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week. “~Dt. Edward T. Hiscox, author of The B~itit Manual, in a paper read hefore a New York ministers’ conference held Nov.13, 1893.
CATHOLIC: “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line
authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we ICatholics] ne~r sanctify. “-james Cardinal Gibbons, The Fuidi ofGarFathers, 16th edition, 1880, p.111.
CHURCH OF CHRIST: “Finally, we have the testimony of Christ on this subject. In Mark 2:27, he says: ‘The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.’ From this passage it is evident that the Sabbath was made not merely for the Israelites, as Paley and Hengstenberg would have us believe, but for ….. that is, for the race. Hence we conclude that the Sabbath was sanctified from the beginning, and that it was given to Adam, even in Eden, as one of those primeval institutions that God ordained for the happiness of all men. “-Robert Milligan, Schetne of Redempiten, (St. Louis, The Fethany Press, 1962), p.165.
CONGREGATIONALIST: “The Christian Sabbath [Sunday] is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath.”-Dwight’s Theology, Vol.4, p.401.
EPISCOPAL: “Sunday (Dies Solis, of the Roman calendar, ‘day of the sun,’ because dedicated to the sun), the first day of the week, was adopted by the early Christians as a day of worship. No regulations for its observance are laid down in the New Testament, nor, indeed, is its observance even enjoined.”~”Sunday,” A Religious Encyclopedia, Vol.3, (New York, Funk and Wagnalls, 1883) p.2259.
LUTHERAN: “The observance of the Lord’s day [Sunday] is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the church,”-Augsbutg Confession of Faith, quoted in Cadzolc Sdbla~ Manual, Part 2, Chapter 1, Section 10.
METHODIST: “Take the matter of Sunday. There are indications in the New Testament as to how the church came to keep the first day of the week as its day of worship, but there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day.”-Harris Ft~nklin Fall, Chnstian Advocate, July 2,1942.
MOODY BIBLE INSTITUTE: “The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word ‘remember,’ showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding ?”-D. L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting, p.47.
PRESBYTERIAN: “Until, therefore, it can be shown that the whole moral law has been repealed, the Sabbath will stand. … The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath.”-T. C. Blake, D.D., Theology Condensed, pp. 474,475.
PENTECOSTAL: “‘Why do we worship on Sunday? Doesn’t the Bible teach us that
Saturday should be the Lord’s Day?’…
Apparently we will have to seek the answer from some other source than the New Testament.”-D5~~d A. Womack, “Is Sunday the Lord’s Day?” The Pentecostal Evangel, Aug. 9,1959, No.2361, p.3.
ENCYCLOPEDIA: “Sunday was a name given by the heathen to the first day of the week, because it was the day on which they worshiped the sun, … the seventh day was blessed and hallowed by God Himself, and… He requires His creatures to keep it holy to Him. This commandment is of universal and perpetual obligation.” -Eudle’s Biblical Cyclopedia, 1872 ed., p.561.
It doesn’t matter when or by who the day was changed, since the sabbath LAW was part of the ended LAW COVENANT. It’s no longer in force, having been replaced by the New Covenant made between God, with Jesus as the representative of God, and God’s annointed sons and daughters, the 144,000.
And that statement right there proves without a shadow of doubt that the Jehovah Witnesses are nothing but a cult doomed to burn in the lake of fire.
Amminadab;
God ending the law covenant proves something about God’s witnesses? It would be hard for you to make a more absurd statement. The lake of fire is a metaphorical reference to gehenna, the valley of Hinnom, just outside Jerusalem. It was a burning trash dump, and gehenna and lake of fire symbolize complete destruction and nothing more. It means that God won’t resurrect those who receive the second death. It’s not some mythical place where dead people are tortured, since the scriptures very clearly teach that we don’t have an immortal soul.
Claiming that God’s witnesses are a cult is to claim that God and His son started a cult, which is also supremely absurd. You attack God’s people since they are the only ones on Earth doing God’s will in it’s entirety. You don’t like what you don’t have anything to do with, more specifically, you don’t like anyone who does God’s will, since you yourself refuse to do it. Why is that? Why would you choose Satan over God the Almighty? It means your permanent death. Gehenna, the second death, the lake of fire and sulphur. No resurrection.
Jesus is Evil today? The real offspring of the human wannabe new Nero?
Mary by blood (bloodline) stood for the renaissance and the reformation. Then Voltaire was a Jesuit. It is all a mess.
(If you personally look-into this, then You still got spirituality left)
JSP #6 – “Christianity Has Nothing To Do With Jesus!” Says Ralph Ellis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hn42_mOtyQ&list=PLtjJ_jbr9QS0pkd_Rr8QZ1WhZom2al6Qq
Mary of Orange.