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HERE IT IS – LAW AND GRACE MADE EVEN CLEARER – A PARABLE FOR THOSE WHO HAVE EYES THAT SEE AND EARS THAT HEAR
HERE IT IS – LAW AND GRACE MADE EVEN CLEARER – A PARABLE FOR THOSE WHO HAVE EYES THAT SEE AND EARS THAT HEAR
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GLOSSARY OF TERMS AND SUBJECTS YOU MAY NEED TO KNOW
Benevolent – characterized by or expressing goodwill or kindly feelings
Good King Wenceslas – a 10th century nobleman known for leaving the warmth and comfort of the palace in the harsh winters to minister to cold and hungry peasants. There is a Christmas Carol about him.
Natural Affection – love – the lack of love is the root of all problems. Where you have true love, you do not need rules.
Mystical – inspiring a sense of spiritual mystery, awe, and fascination.
Cordial – a comforting or pleasant-tasting medicine, something that results in sincerely or deeply felt affection from the inside.
Assimilated – to take in and incorporate as one’s own, to learn (something) so that it is fully understood and can be used
A PROBLEM IN THE REALM
VANITY FAIR PILGRIM’S PROGRESS
Many years ago a benevolent king traveled through his realm to visit his subjects, to see how they were getting along, and to see if there were any problems that needed to be addressed. Unlike most kings, he was more concerned about his people than he was his own comfort. Good King Wenceslas reminds me of him.
In his travels he came across a part of his realm that had a real problem. The people in that area had a strange malady – they did not have natural affection. No one genuinely cared about anyone else and even the children were neglected, unloved, and mistreated. They were very selfish and carnal.
No one was really happy in this miserable condition but they had been like that so long that, to them, it was normal. This strange condition was hereditary and had been passed down to them from the first people who had come into this area many, many, years ago.
A TEMPORARY PLAN
The King set to work to remedy this problem and he came up with a temporary plan. He selected a group out of the people and taught them how they should behave. Because they did not have natural affection he knew that they would not obey what he had taught them unless he also put in place a strong incentive for them to comply. If they obeyed they would be rewarded, if they did not obey they would suffer punishment.
BOOK OF RULES
He then charged this group with the responsibility of being an example to the others and to teach them proper behavior. He provided them with a Book of Rules for all the people to follow. The book included heavy fines for every infraction. Then the King left to go back to the royal palace to hold a council meeting about a permanent remedy for this affliction.
NO ONE KEPT THE RULES
In the Kings absence things did not go very well. Many of the people he had charged with the responsibility of being an example became very proud. They no longer lead by their example but claimed a special privilege for being the chosen group. Even though they had been entrusted with the rules they did not obey them. They even persecuted and killed members of their own group who tried to point out their failure.The rest of the Kings subjects began to despise them and jokes were told about their hypocrisy.
It was bad for the regular people too. Their lack of natural affection resulted in breaking many of the rules and incurring heavy fines. They had to borrow to pay the fines and the debt was so large that there was really no way to ever pay it back.
THE MYSTICAL CORDIAL
Meanwhile, back at the royal palace, the Son of the King had volunteered to work out a remedy for the afflicted subjects. It just so happened that the Son was not only co-regent, he was also a very wise physician and he had come up with a mystical Cordial that would restore natural affection to the subjects. The property of this mystical Cordial was such that it would only work if the people wanted to be cured. The cost had been enormous. It was so expensive that I do not have words to explain how much it cost; only the King and his Son could have provided such an expensive Cordial. The council decided that the Son Himself should leave at once and take it to the people.
THE GOOD NEWS
When the Son came into the country of the afflicted people he began to announce from one end to the other the good news of the Cordial. People were very interested and huge crowds began to come. The Cordial was very powerful indeed. People who drank the Cordial instantly had a joy and peace like nothing they had ever experienced before. Not only did they begin to love their children and family, they even began to love their enemies. Many of the most afflicted in the land were cured.
THE CORDIAL REJECTED
When the proud among the group who had been entrusted with the Rule Book saw this they became jealous and fearful. They liked being called the master teachers of the Rule Book, they liked the respect in the places of business, and the control they had over the regular people. They began to plot against the Son.
The Son was very wise and was aware of their plot. He knew that the leaders would reject him and his Cordial and he would return to his Father. He chose out 12 trusted men to continue to provide the Cordial in his absence. He even chose one of the nastiest in the chosen group (his story is too long to tell here) and he was one of the first to realize the full implications of the Cordial. He realized that the Book of Rules was not necessary for the ones who had received the Cordial.
THE CORDIAL MAKES THE BOOK OF RULE UNNECESSARY
The Book of Rules was necessary when the people did not have natural affection. Now that they had natural affection the rules were no longer necessary. Instead of a Book of Rules they were given a Book of Special Letters telling them how much the King and his Son cared for them and about the great cost they had paid for the Cordial. The Book of Letters was dictated directly to chosen men by the Third Councilor of the realm.
THE BOOK OF SPECIAL LETTERS AND THE CORDIAL
I should let you know a few important things about the Cordial. The Book of Special Letters was given as an aid to the Cordial. Those who had received the Cordial were simply told that if they followed the Book of Special Letters “ye shall do well”. Even though the affect of the Cordial began immediately the people still had old habits and thought patterns that had to be overcome. As they assimilated the Book of Special Letters the affects of the Cordial were further enhanced. If they began to slip back into their old habits and thought patterns the Cordial would cause them to have serious anxiety problems. If they kept slipping it could even make them sick. It might even cause their premature death if they persisted in their resistance to the influence of the Cordial. Since the affect of the Cordial was on the inside it was much more powerful than the Book of Rules which had been on the outside.
A SCHISM OVER THE CORDIAL AND THE BOOK OF RULES
Now, a big division began to develop over the Book of Rules. Some of the group that had been in charge of the Book of Rules put more importance on the rules than on the Cordial. They began falsely to accuse those who said the rules were no longer necessary and claim that they were saying that people could drink the Cordial and then disobey the Rule Book since it was no longer necessary. (No one actually ever taught this.) Even some who had taken the Cordial began slip back to the Rule Book and the affect of the Cordial was so limited by this that they fell from its power. Pride caused them to want to take some of the credit for their recovery. They did not want to admit that they had not and could not keep the rules although they tried to make others look up to them by pretending that they did.
MARTIN LUTHER ON TRIAL
THE PROBLEM IS STILL HERE
Well, even after so long a time, this problem is still with us today . The group who had been given the Rule Book have totally rejected both the Cordial and the Kings Son who gave it. They have even infiltrated the followers of the Son of the King with false teachers who say they should return to the roots of the Rule Book. Whenever someone comes along and proclaims the liberty and love that the Cordial will give, they will be followed by those with a Rule Book that is no longer needed. Here is how you can recognize them: they will talk a lot about the Rule Book but say little about the Cordial or the Kings Son who brought it. They will mention the Cordial and the Son only because it looks badly if they do not. Like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, they have a handful of verses that they repeat over and over again, always followed by long confusing commentary.
Mike Clinton, Hiawassee, Ga. Feb. 16, 2014
My first article on this can be found below. I took the scriptures there and wove them into this narrative.
I will read as many of your comments as time allows. I appreciate you all.
The false apostle Pharisee Paul tells his converts:
Romans 7:17 It is not I who commits my evil deeds, that is sin in my flesh that commits my evil deeds
Romans 7:23 … All flesh is captive to the law of sin
1. All flesh being captive to the law of sin means if Christ came in the flesh, he too would have sin dwelling in his flesh.
Romans 8:3 … Christ came in the likeness of sinful flesh
Therefore, Pharisee Paul DENIES Christ came in the flesh otherwise the flesh body of Christ would also be captive to the law of sin.
Mike Clinton is a bozo clown who is too stupid to understand fully his Pharisee master’s doctrine, he lies about what his master states.
Based on the lie of a so-called ‘law of sin’, Pharisee Paul claims no one could keep Moses’ law and therefore, Christ came to do away with Moses’ law:
Colossians 2:14 Christ nailed the law of God to the cross
Romans 8:2 THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT IN THE LIFE OF JESUS CHRIST freed me from the law of sin and death
DOPE CLINTON, I have numerous times for you to explain WHAT IS THE:
Law of the Spirit in the Life of Jesus Christ
But the child of Hell Clinton refuses to answer.
The moron clown Clinton refuses to acknowledge his Pharisee master’s doctrine, claiming he is freed from Moses’ law, but his master DOES put him and all Paul’s converts under Moses’ law, but just one command. NO PROBLEM, the Christian dogs who claim as their master that no one can keep Moses’ law can keep one commandment of Moses: PAY YOUR CHURCH RULERS WELL, PAY THEM VERY WELL
1 Timothy 5:16-18 Take care of your own widows and do not look to the church for money to take care of them. Now obey Moses’ command and pay your church rulers well
WHY DOES MIKE CLINTON NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW THE ABOVE? What is his financial connection to churches, the gospel of Paul? Is that why the dog liar hides the truth of Paul’s doctrine?
1 Corinthians 9:9-11 You think God cares about oxen. That command of Moses was written for us church rulers, now pay your church rulers well
Pharisee Paul says God does not care about oxen. Christ says a sparrow does not fall to the ground without the Father’s consent, so I would have to say that God does care about oxen, which is why he gave the command not to muzzle an ox when it is threshing grain (Deuteronomy 25:4).
God also cares about mother birds, saying do not take a mother bird sitting in a nest with her young or eggs (Deuteronomy 22:6).
THE EVIL PHARISEE PAUL throws out all of Moses’ law, except one command which he twists to mean that which it does not mean.
PAUL’S DOCTRINE IS:
1. His converts are under the “law of the spirit in the life of Jesus Christ” (Romans 8:2). I never heard a Pharisee Paul convert give a discourse on exactly what is that said law, the law of the spirit in the life of Jesus Christ
2. His converts are under Moses’ command in Deuteronomy 25:4, which the evil Pharisee claims is not really as stated, because God does not care about oxen, and is actually a command for Gentiles to pay money to the Pharisees:
Romans 15:27 I taught the Gentiles that it is their duty to give us money
Clinton and his wife, typical Christian jerks who stage photos of themselves to appeal to their audience. She has her cross on and both have their flowers and the church trappings in the back ground.
I can go and buy an altar today online. I can choose from a wide variety of designs and materials. When does that altar become an altar of God? While on the factory floor being manufactured? While sitting in inventory waiting to be sold? When placed inside a building and called a church, the altar then becomes an altar of God?
Evil Christians, your church altars are abominations to the Lord and those who love Christ, come out of the churches (Rev. 18:4). The whore (Roman Catholic church) has harlots (Rev. 17:5). The harlots are the Christian non-Catholic churches. Regardless of denomination, all churches are founded solely on the gospel of Pharisee Paul.
EVIL EVIL Mr and Mrs Children of Hell Clinton, they love their Pharisee:
2 Corinthians 5:6 Christ is not with you while you are on earth
Hebrews 13:17 Christ appointed men to watch over souls
Hebrews 13:11-13 Christ is busy hanging out with burning animal carcasses and he is full of shame and is suffering
Great, Mr. and Mrs. Children of Hell Clinton, that is one fine teaching above from your master Pharisee Paul
Matthew 23:15 Pharisees are children of Hell and their converts are twice the children of Hell than Pharisees
Acts 23:6 I AM A PHARISEE
Acts 26:5 I live my life as a PHARISEE
Philippians 3:5 I AM A PHARISEE
The false christ of Pharisee Paul, and these are the ones who think they are of Christ and Christ says to them:
Matthew 7:22-23 MANY shall say to me in that day, but Lord Lord we did many wonderful works IN YOUR NAME … And I will tell them I NEVER KNEW YOU. Depart from me, workers of LAWLESSNESS
And dog children of Hell Clinton that miserable creature speaks to all of God’s creature DO NOT FOLLOW MOSES’ LAW, WE ARE FREE FROM MOSES’ LAW. But again, PLEASE AT LEAST SPEAK TRUTH OF YOUR MASTER’S DOCTRINE:
1. Pharisee Paul converts are under the “law of the spirit in the life of Jesus Christ” (Romans 8:2).
2. Pharisee Paul converts are under Moses’ command in Deuteronomy 25:4 (1 Timothy 5:16-18, 1 Cor. 9:9-11), but not really his command, for the Pharisee lies claiming Deut. 25:4 does not mean as stated
Do you claim to be without sin Pharisees?
If you do claim to be without sin, then John (one of the Apostles whose teachings you claim to follow) says you are a liar (see 1 John 1:10).
If you do sin Pharisees, then what sacrifice or sacrifices atone for your sin?
Do you offer the sacrifices required by the Law of Moses as atonement for your sins? Or, do accept the sacrifice of the blood of Jesus as the atonement of your sins? If it is the later, this is the very theology of grace espoused by Paul which you claim is heresy.
JOHN 8:11 … I DO NOT CONDEMN YOU, GO AND SIN NO MORE
The blood of Christ is ATONEMENT for sins. CHRIST’S SHED BLOOD REMOVED PENALTY FOR ALL SINS, except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit:
Matthew 12:31 Any evil men do can be forgiven except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
SINCE CHRIST’S SHED BLOOD FOREVER TOOK AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD, except that stated one sin, NO LONGER IS THERE CONDEMNATION OF SIN. THIS IS THE CONDEMNATION:
John 3:19 AND THIS IS THE CONDEMNATION, that light has come into the world but men preferred darkness to light and so refused to give up evil deeds
CONDEMNATION IS FOR REFUSING TO GIVE UP EVIL DEEDS
And what does the evil master of EVIL am123 say:
ROMANS 7:19 I DO EVIL
And he excuses his evil deeds based on his lie that his flesh and all flesh is captive to a so-called law of sin.
am123 knows all that I am posting here, but he/she is TWICE THE CHILD OF HELL than Pharisees. A plant not planted by the father:
Matthew 23:15 PHARISEES ARE CHILDREN OF HELL, their converts are TWICE THE CHILDREN OF HELL than Pharisees
Acts 23:6, Philippians 3:5 I AM A PHARISEE
Matthew 15:13-14 Pharisees are plants not planted by the Father that shall be rooted up. Pharisees are BLIND LEADERS OF THE BLIND and when the blind lead the blind, they both fall into the ditch
PHARISEES GO TO HELL, THEIR CONVERTS GO TO HELL
am123 puts up a FALSE ARGUMENT for I do not claim that Christ’s shed blood is not atonement for sins.
BECAUSE CHRIST DID PAY SUCH A GREAT PRICE TO REMOVE THE PENALTY FOR SINS, having laid down his life to FOREVER accomplish full atonement for the sins of the world (except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit),
HOW EVIL TO SAY THAT EVIL DOERS ARE OF GOD! How evil to preach that we will do evil because our bodies are infested with sin, as Pharisee Paul says CAPTIVE TO THE LAW OF SIN, a law that DOES NOT EXIST!
If such law existed, then why is Christ telling people to stop doing evil when if such law did exist, then surely God would know that people cannot cease doing evil! That is the LIE of the false apostle Pharisee Paul that all flesh is captive to the law of sin:
Romans 7:23 … ALL FLESH IS CAPTIVE TO THE LAW OF SIN
BUT in actuality, the Pharisee KNOWS HE IS LYING TO HIS GENTILE SUCKERED PREY, LIKE AM123 AND MIKE CLINTON, for he says:
IT IS HATRED for Moses’ law that causes people to break Moses’ law. None of Pharisee Paul’s alleged ‘law of sin’ here:
Hebrews 10:28-29 HE THAT HATED MOSES’ LAW DIED WITHOUT MERCY
My guess is that am123 and Mike Clinton have a financial interest in churches and/or preaching the gospel of Paul. They will end up where they belong and having the information, they refuse to repent of following a Pharisee, they are children of Hell:
Matthew 7:22-23 MANY shall say to me in that day, but Lord Lord we did many wonderful works IN YOUR NAME … And I will tell them I NEVER KNEW YOU. Depart from me, workers of LAWLESSNESS
And what is children of Hell Mr. and Mrs. Mike Clinton preaching in their article: LAWLESSNESS, NO MORE LAW OF MOSES
But as I pointed out their master Pharisee does place his children of Hell converts under one command of Moses (1 Timothy 5:16-18, 1 Cor. 9:9-11, Deut. 25:4).
Pharisees said:
“am123 puts up a FALSE ARGUMENT for I do not claim that Christ’s shed blood is not atonement for sins.”
But here is the crux of the matter, you also said:
“CONDEMNATION IS FOR REFUSING TO GIVE UP EVIL DEEDS”
Let me cut to the chase and expose the diabolical trap of this ravenous wolf and how he has painted himself into a theological corner. Here is the plan of salvation offered by Mr. Congeniality: Stop sinning and you’ll be saved. Yep, that’s all there is to it—just stop sinning! Remember, Jesus defined adultery as even thinking lustful thoughts. So from here on out until you die, cease from sinning, cease from lustful thoughts and so on. Got that? That’s ridiculous, right? Well, that is the way you must be saved according to the scoundrel Pharisees if you have read some of his past rants. His anti-Paul heresy will leave you high and dry with no hope on Judgment Day. The Gospel is Good News for a reason. Jesus came with a purpose, to reconcile mankind with God—not by pointing out to us to just stop sinning and you’ll be saved, but by providing a blood sacrifice for the atonement of sins. When you fall short of perfection, and we all continue to do that, you must rely on the grace of Jesus Christ for your salvation, which is the theology espoused by Paul, the very theology you reject.
CHILD OF HELL AM123 writes: “Stop sinning and you’ll be saved. Yep, that’s all there is to it—just stop sinning! Remember, Jesus defined adultery as even thinking lustful thoughts”
THAT RIGHT YOU EVIL CHILD OF HELL, JUST STOP DOING EVIL:
EZEKIEL 18:27 THE WICKED MAN THAT TURNS AWAY FROM HIS WICKEDNESS HE HAS COMMITTED AND DOES THAT WHICH IS LAW SHALL SAVE HIS SOUL
The Paul converts call Ezekiel a LIAR, they call Christ a LIAR:
Matthew 3:2 REPENT, because the kingdom of God is coming
Matthew 4:17 REPENT, because the kingdom of God is coming
Matthew 10:7 REPENT, because the kingdom of God is coming
WHAT DOES REPENT MEAN — TURN FROM DOING EVIL
But the evil am123 speaks the doctrine of the anti-Christ:
Romans 7:19 I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO GOOD. I DO EVIL
Evil am123 says Christ sets a standard that NO ONE CAN KEEP. The evil evil Paul converts CLAIM THAT THE FATHER SETS STANDARDS FOR HIS CHILDREN THAT THEY CANNOT KEEP!
AM123 LIES, for Christ DID NOT SAY that thinking lustful thoughts is evil! What Christ said is a man is not to look upon another woman and commit adultery with her in his heart, to have nailed her, so to speak, in his heart such that if he had the opportunity to act out on his adulterous thoughts, he would. He has already acted out having her in his heart. The woman could be married, could be engaged which is why Christ says do not look upon a woman and bed her in heart.
Matthew 5:28 Whoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her in his heart
WHAT DOES CHRIST SAY, IT IS FROM THE HEART THAT COMES EVIL DESIRES
Matthew 15:19 FROM THE HEART PROCEEDS EVIL THOUGHTS, MURDERS, DEVIANT SEX, ADULTERY, THEFTS, FALSE WITNESS, BLASPHEMIES
And there we see PHARISEE PAUL IS A LIAR and so are his children of Hell converts, like Mr. and Mrs. Mike Clinton, am123 because Paul says evil acts come from sin dwelling in the flesh:
Romans 7:17 IT IS NOT ME DOING MY EVIL DEEDS. SIN IN MY FLESH DOES MY EVIL DEEDS
Romans 7:23 … ALL FLESH IS CAPTIVE TO THE LAW OF SIN
Romans 7:24 I am such a wretched man, who will deliver me from my body of death
PSYCHO CHRISTIANS SAY, DELIVER US LORD FROM OUR BODIES, OUR EVIL EVIL BODIES THAT CAUSE US TO DO EVIL.
The evil false apostle Pharisee Paul says his flesh causes him to do evil
Christ says evil proceeds from the heart of a man AND WHERE YOUR HEART IS SO IS YOUR TREASURE.
Romans 7:19 I DO EVIL – so his heart is set on a treasure of evil and Hell is where Pharisee Paul goes
MATTHEW 6:21 WHERE YOU TREASURE IS, THAT IS WHERE YOUR HEART WILL BE
THE FOOL CHRISTIANS claim their evil deeds are due to weak flesh, their sin-infested, captive to law of sin flesh, their icky icky evil flesh. BUT CHRIST SAYS IT IS FROM THE HEART THAT EVIL THOUGHTS COME AND YOUR HEART CONTINUES INTO THE AFTERLIFE, and here heart does not mean the organ called ‘heart’, but refers to that which is in a man that seeks treasure whether be good or evil.
People use the term, I have wanted that with all my heart. They don’t mean the muscle called ‘heart’ they are referring to that which is in every that DESIRES, whether the desire is for evil things or for good things.
A man who does Christ’s words, out of respect for the fact that a woman could belong to someone else, and it is evil to take another man’s wife or his concubine, will not bed her in his heart upon seeing an attractive woman. Find out whether she belongs to someone first and go from there.
It is ridiculous to say Christ forbids lustful thoughts, which is what the evil am123 states:
Genesis 2:24 A man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife
Men have testosterone that drives their sexual desires. A man leaves his father and mother because he needs to lie with a woman. Normal women have desire for men and below God says the desire of a woman will be for her husband:
Genesis 3:16 … your desire shall be for your husband
Christ does not limit a man to one wife. It is Pharisee Paul’s doctrine that does so! In fact, if the Pharisee had his way, Gentile men would never touch a woman, and Gentile women would never be with a man (1 Cor. 7:2, 7:34)! Christ does not forbid concubines.
Until 1862, men were permitted multiple wives in USA. Made a misdemeanor crime in 1862, upped to a felony crime in 1882. Four of the twelves sons of Jacob were born to concubines (Genesis Ch. 30).
AM123 AND MIKE CLINTON want you to KNEEL BEFORE ALTARS TO DO AS FOLLOWS, or at least the following is the teaching of their evil master Pharisee Paul:
1 Corinthians 11:26 DO THE EUCHARIST AS OFTEN AS YOU WANT BECAUSE EVERY TIME YOU DO YOU SAY, CHRIST IS DEAD UNTIL HE COMES BACK
Christ said that the true worshipers worship the Father in spirit and in truth and there is no truth to saying CHRIST IS DEAD
REVELATION 1:14-18 HIS HEAD AND HAIRS WERE AS WHITE AS WOOL, AS WHITE AS SNOW … HIS EYES WERE AS FLAMES OF FIRE … HIS COUNTENANCE WAS AS THE SUN SHINES IN ALL OF ITS STRENGTH … I AM HE THAT LIVES, WAS DEAD AND AM ALIVE FOREVER MORE
Don’t be a sucker:
Romans 15:27 I taught the Gentiles it is their duty to give us money
IT IS NOT YOUR DUTY, believers on Christ, to give your money to any church! Churches are businesses with altars that are not of God. Christ did not establish churches. It is the gospel of the false apostle Pharisee Paul, Pharisee forgeries 1 & 2 Peter that establishes churches
So Pharisees, have you stopped doing evil?
REVELATION 22:11 … let him that is RIGHTEOUS be RIGHTEOUS STILL and let him that is HOLY be HOLY still
MATTHEW 13:41 CHRIST SHALL SEND FORTH HIS ANGELS WHO WILL REMOVE ALL EVIL PEOPLE AND ALL OFFENSIVE THINGS FROM THE EARTH
CHILDREN OF HELL SCUMBAGS LIKE AM123, HATERS OF CHRIST, HATERS OF PEOPLE say everyone is evil.
If everyone is evil, then no one will be left on earth when Christ returns. TRUTH IS, THE ANGELS KNOW WHO IS EVIL AND
WHO IS GOOD
and take away the evil people and leave the good people.
THE DISGUSTING CHILDREN OF HELL SAY EVERYONE DOES EVIL. The psychos justify in their mind why their master does evil, all do evil just like their master.
BUT THE TRUTH IS:
3 John 1:11 … Those who do evil are not of God
John 3:20 CHRIST SPEAKING – EVILDOERS HATE THE LIGHT
And here is the founder of Christianity, which is church rulers tending to church altars and demanding money from their church attendants:
ROMANS 7:19 I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO GOOD. I DO EVIL
dealing with children of Hell, be forewarned. Christians are evil, those who have converted to Paul’s doctrine. They are twice the children of Hell than Pharisees who are children of Hell (Matthew 23:15, Acts 23:6, 26:5, Philippians 3:5). Being fit for the everlasting fire they will NEVER understand that evildoers do not go to Heaven.
And for those who wonder, what of an evil person who never knew to repent, God has that covered. In Matthew 11:23-24 Christ says that Sodom would still exist if the men had seen his miracles because they would have repented. AND OF THE GOOD PEOPLE WHO NEVER HEARD OF CHRIST,
REV. 5:9 … you have redeemed us by your blood from among EVERY NATION, TRIBE, LANGUAGE AND PEOPLE
PSALM 1:6 GOD KNOWS THE RIGHTEOUS but evil people shall perish
God knows the good people, even the good who did not know him.
am123 and Mike Clinton are dogs, liars, children of Hell because they are converts to Pharisee Paul’s doctrine:
Acts 23:6 I AM A PHARISEE
Acts 26:5 I LIVE MY LIFE AS A PHARISEE
Philippians 3:5 I AM A PHARISEE
Matthew 23:15 Pharisees are children of Hell and their converts are twice the children of Hell than Pharisees
THAT MEN OF THE 325 A.D. COUNCIL OF NICEA put Pharisee writings with writings of Jews of the Lord under one cover titled ‘bible (the 1st of 4) does not NEGATE CHRIST’S WARNING not to adopt Pharisee doctrine:
Matthew 7:22-23 MANY shall say to me in that day, but Lord Lord we did many wonderful works in your name … And I will tell them, I never knew you. Depart from me, workers of lawlessness
And Paul’s doctrine is dark and ugly, a scam to get Gentile converts to pay money to church rulers. Evildoers are not of God. NO MAN HAS THE MIND OF GOD BUT GOD!
1 Cor. 2:16 WE HAVE THE MIND OF GOD
Paul’s gospel is EVIL! Here is where the Christians’ master Pharisee places Christ:
Hebrews 13:11-13 CHRIST IS SUFFERING WITH BURNING ANIMAL CARCASSES AND IS FULL OF SHAME
TO HELL WITH THE LIES OF PHARISEE PAUL. Christ is alive in Heaven, NOT FULL OF SHAME, NOT SUFFERING and not hanging out with burning animal carcasses, you freaking evil Mr. and Mrs. Children of Hell Clinton and am123.
Should I take that as a “yes” or a “no”?
In my last article on this some admitted that the Greek scholars, the commentaries, and even the Bibles that are available to you teach what I am saying here but, unbelievably, they claim that all of them are part of one big conspiracy to hide the truth from you. “Any port in a storm”!
Mike,
You know who also hate the HOLY WAY of God Almighty, Satan.
Here is a scripture talking about you.
Jude 4
4 “For there are certain men crept in unawares who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness and denying the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ”.
Mike you know how to turn grace into lasciviousness or lawlessness, by teaching the Law has been abolished.
You teach “the harsh impossible Law of God is now off your backs”, you are now free to sin.
Truthseeker, I wrote about your accusation in the article. Absolutely not true. You, are the one who teaches men not to keep the least commandments. Jesus said if you want to keep the whole Law that you must never lust, get divorced, hate, not steal even a pen or a paperclip or even a minute of time from your job or you are a thief, not eat out, go to a movie or watch TV on the Sabbath, not desire anything someone else has at all, if you put anything at all before God you are an idolater, I could go on. Now do you teach men to keep all this without fail? Do you?
Mike
It is so sad, the deep hatred and loathing you have for the HOLY LAW of God has blinded you.
Mike, Satan hates the HOLY LAW and you teach that Christ Had to come and save us from it?
That is blasphemy.
The Law of God is the very Divine Righteous Nature of God the very same Nature that the Holy Spirit begins to build in God’s Saints.
I know there is not one scripture or even a Book of scripture that will or can changes your mind.
God will work with you at a different time.
Truthseeker, do you also write under another name on here?
Mike,
The Old Covenant (contract) promised physical blessing for ‘physical’ obedience to the 10 Commandments and death for transgressions; no mercy or forgiveness was ever included.
Mike, Here is what you refuse to understand as you are blinded by your hatred of the Law.
Speaking of the children of Israel:
Since not one, in their unconverted physical condition, could obey the 10 Commandments the children of Israel were condemn to death and yet the Old Covenant was called glorious!
Now Christ brought to us the New Covenant which offers mercy and eternal life with exceeding great Glory. Every person ever born has earned the penalty of Death, that adverse sentence of death is for our transgressions of the 10 Commandments.
Jesus Christ has taken upon Himself our sentence of death and died in our stead.
The verdict of Law that killed Christ should and would have killed us; Christ saved us from our own sins by His death. He did not take away the Law – He took away our verdict of death, our condemnation, with His own body.
With baptism we are symbolically joining Christ in His death, burial and resurrection, when we come up out of the watery grave we have symbolically died, been buried and then resurrected with Christ. Our past sins remain in that watery grave.
THUS — We are no longer under the law –understand — no longer are we under the condemnation or sentence of death for our transgressions of the Holy Law of God. Our debt of death is paid by Christ and we are no longer under condemnation or verdict of death by the Law, but are still subject to the Law, it still has authority over us..
Once cleansed of our sins by the symbolic washing with the shed Blood of Jesus Christ, the penalty of death each one of us has earned by living contrary to the Law of God is washed away. The blood washes away sin — not the Law.
Christ by His sacrifice removed our condemnation and not the Law, the Law only points out the transgressions, it only explains or codifies what is sin: See Romans 7: 7, God issues the verdict of death against transgressors- not the Law.
An important point to understand;
If the Law it’s self, the 10 Commandments, killed instantly and automatically each time one was transgressed there would never have been more then Adam and Eve. God controls the timing of the verdict of death – as to – when it will be fulfilled in each person’s life. At the time of the flood of Noah, God chose to then put to death all the world but 8. At the time of the end He will put to death all but 10%, His tithe.
The Law shows us what SIN is, the Law defines exactly what is sin! If the Law were to be removed or abolished there would be no such thing as sin. Sin could not exist even as a ‘word’ as sin is the transgression of the Law (I John 3; 4).
If the Law only applied to non Christians, then what are the Saints of God admonished to repent of? Why are the 7 churches in Revelation told to repent? Of What are they to repent – if there is no Law?
Check and see, were they to repent of keeping the Law? How ridiculous!!!
When Christ took upon Himself all of our sins – the verdict of death for sin issued long before by the Father — put Him to death. He is our Passover Lamb slain in our stead; our sins KILLED Jesus Christ of Nazareth our Creator God. That is the simple
Mike this is the TRUTH you hate. In the 2nd resurrection you will have the chance to learn to Love the HOLY LAW of God.
Wow who would of thought Christians fighting over who is right or wrong about the Bible!!LOL!! How about yous are both wrong!!!!
Good Day, gentlemen!
Dearest Mike,
Hey, when are you “christians” going to go “Medieval” on one another about the meaning of “words” in “your” ALL MALE HUMAN written “Book of Babble”?
Could you make it like the “Dark Ages” of euro-Caucasian history and KILL YOURSELVES BY THE TENS OF THOUSANDS?????
The rest of us WOULD REALLY LIKE THAT!
It would “save” us from having to DEAL WITH YOU LUNATICS at all in the future!
Your actions would be videoed and shown to children at schools ALL OVER THE WORLD, so that YOUR VILE CREED would DIE with you nut balls!
The “Final” generation of chris scum dumb mind-controlled SLAVES would be witnessed us!
NOW, THERE IS SOMETHING TO “GIVE THANKS” FOR!
THE DEATH, THE END, OF THE VILE “Euro-Caucasian Colonial Mind Control religion” called “christianity”!
I, THE BEEF SUPREMACIST, HAVE PASSED JUDGEMENT, AND WRITTEN THE WORD OF TRUTH!
Aahhhhhhhh……….. THE HORROR OF LYING, CHEATING and very VIOLENT chris O CREEPS……………. THE HORROR OF LYING, CHEATING and very VIOLENT chris O CREEPS
So, Beef Supremacist, care to weigh in on the law vs. grace issue?
Good Afternoon Mike & Fellow Debaters of THE LAW.
Am123, thank you for your invitation to “weigh in” on the law vs. grace issue!
I wonder if you could verify for me the BODY COUNT, where your kind, gentle, and fair human male “god”, kills over 2,270,369 people man woman and child in the christian Bible?
If accurate, would you please explain to me if the wanton killing was done “gracefully”?
Thank you so much!
Here is the Version I refer to: SAB, Brick Testament
Oh, learned Beef Supreme!
The NON-christian “christian scripture” Expert interpreter!
Could you please verify, or debate as to the accuracy of the carnage “your” kind male human god is responsible for?
Thank you for your honest opinion!
Let’s begin….and be patient, get your calculators out, because this List is LONG!
But, you gentlemen are very used to long winded (I mean written) dissertations on “god” and THE LAW.
Number Killed Cummulative Total
Lot’s
wife for looking back
Gen.19:26, BT
1
1
Er who
was “wicked in the sight of the Lord”
Gen.38:7, BT
1
2
Onan for
spilling his seed
Gen.38:10, BT
1
3
For
dancing naked around Aaron’s golden calf
Ex.32:27-28, 35, BT
3000
3003
Aaron’s
sons for offering strange fire before the Lord
Lev.10:1-3, Num.3:4, 26:61, BT
2
3005
A
blasphemer
Lev.24:10-23, BT
1
3006
A man who
picked up sticks on the Sabbath
Num.15:32-36, BT
1
3007
Korah,
Dathan, and Abiram (and their families)
Num.16:27, BT
12+
3019+
Burned to
death for offering incense
Num.16:35, 26:10, BT
250
3269+
For
complaining
Num.16:49, BT
14,700
17,969+
For
“committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab”
Num.25:9, BT
24,000
41,969+
Midianite
massacre (32,000 virgins were kept alive)
Num.31:1-35, BT
90,000+
131,969+
God tells
Joshua to stoned to death Achan (and his family) for taking the accursed
thing.
Joshua 7:10-12, 24-26, BT
5+
131,974+
! God tells
Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone).
Joshua 8:1-25, BT
12,000
143,974+
Joshua
kills 5 kings and han! gs their dead bodies on trees
Joshua 10:24-26, BT
5
143,979+
God
delivered Canaanites and Perizzites
Judges 1:4, BT
10,000
153,979+
Ehud
delivers a message from God: a knife into the king’s belly
Jg.3:15-22, BT
1
153,980+
God
delivered Moabites
Jg.3:28-29, BT
10,000
163,980+
God
forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other.
Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT
120,000
283,980+
The
Spirit of the Lord comes on Samson
Jg.14:19, BT
30
284,010+
The
Spirit of the Lord comes mightily on Samson
Jg.15:14-15, BT
1000
285,010+
Samson’s
God-assisted act of terrorism
Jg.16:27-30, BT
3000
288,010+
“The
Lord smote Benjamin”
Jg.20:35-37, BT
25,100
313,110+
More
Benjamites
Jg.20:44-46
25,000
338,110+
For
looking into the ark of the Lord
1 Sam.6:19
5! 0,070
388,180+
God
delivered Philistines
1 Sam.14:12
20
388,200+
Samuel
(at God’s command) hacks Agag to death
1 Sam.15:32-33
1
388,201+
“The
Lord smote Nabal.”
1 Sam.25:38
1
388,202+
Uzzah for
trying to keep the ark from falling
2 Sam.6:6-7, 1 Chr.13:9-10
1
388,203+
David and
Bathsheba’s baby boy
2 Sam.12:14-18
1
388,204+
Seven
sons of Saul hung up before the Lord
2 Sam.21:6-9
7
388,211+
From
plague as punishment for David’s census (men only; probably 200,000 if
including women and children)
2 Sam.24:13, 1 Chr.21:7
70,000+
458,211+
A prophet
for believing another prophet’s lie
1 Kg.13:1-24
1
458,212+
God
delivers the Syrians into the Israelites’ hands
1 Kg.20:28-29
100,000
558,212+
God makes
a wall fall on Syrian soldiers
1 Kg.20:30
27,000
585,212+
God sent
a lion to eat a man for not killing a prophet
1 Kg.20:35-36!
1
585,213+
Ahaziah
is killed for talking to the wrong god.
2 Kg.1:2-4, 17, 2 Chr.22:7-9
1
585,214+
Burned to
death by God
2 Kg.1:9-12
102
585,316+
God sends
two b! ears to kill children for making fun of Elisha’s bald head
2 Kg.2:23-24
42
585,348+
Trampled
to death for disbelieving Elijah
2 Kg.7:17-20
1
585,349+
Jezebel
2 Kg.9:33-37
1
585,360+
God sent
lions to kill “some” foreigners
2 Kg.17:25-26
3+
585,363+
Sleeping
Assyrian soldiers
2 Kg.19:35, 2 Chr.32:21, Is.37:36
185,000
770,363+
Saul
1 Chr.10:14
1
770,364+
God
delivers Israel into the hands of Judah
2 Chr.13:15-17
500,000
1,270,364+
Jeroboam
2 Chr.13:20
1
1,270,365+
“The
Lord smote the Ethiopians.”
2 Chr.14:9-14
1,000,000
2,270,365+
God kills
Jehoram by making his bowels fall out
2 Chr.21:14-19
1
2,270,366+
Ezekiel’s
wife
Ezek.24:15-18
1
2,270,367+
Ananias
and Sapphira
Acts 5:1-10
2
2,270,369+
Herod
Acts 12:23, BT
1
2,270,369+
To the list of maniacal, wretched, utterly insane and foul-smelling…
…we can now add to the list of attributes describing the festering and demonic ANGRY INJUN…
Forgetful and Stupid.
Because the abominable Demonic Ignorance has overlooked a few things, has he not brothers and sisters?
Demon Vomit has forgotten to TALLY UP the Great Flood of Noah.
And Demon Vomit has forgotten to TALLY UP every single man, woman or child who has ever died on this planet, of ANY CAUSE whatsoever. Someone really should take the time to explain to Demon Vomit that nothing, absolutely NOTHING, happens on this planet in the absence of our Father’s say-so or contrary to HIS WILL. Therefore, it can rightly be said that our Father is responsible for every death to have ever occurred on this planet.
AND THAT, brothers and sisters, does nothing to take into account the Seven Billion men, women and children whose lives are about to be taken from them via numerous means throughout the course of the Great Tribulation.
But last of all, we had better not overlook the FACT that ALMIGHTY GOD HIMSELF has perished at the hands of evil men in this world; resurrected on the Third Day, and ascended in righteous might to sit at the right hand of POWER. Now no one can suggest that He is unfair. The death He chose for Himself far surpassed even the most grisly form of torture ever experienced by any other man. Some might think that fact alone would be sufficient to silence the objections of loud-mouthed bacterium and other depraved, dysfunctional vipers. Not so.
Maybe it’s just me, brothers and sisters, but it seems that DEATH in this world just might not be the terrible event some Satanic Snakes would have us to believe that it is.
[BEEF SUPREME is hereby retiring from BIN for the next few weeks. Any vile curs who seek him know where he can be found. Our brothers and sisters know as well.]
[email protected]
Wow! What a kind response! Thanks for sharing your WARPED FREE KIN Logic with us all!
What a MONSTER of a “god’ you worship, there Beef Supreme!
It does explain your vile, asrse hole attitude completely!
I KNOW NO god would EVER TAKE CREDIT for “creating this Universe”, as you explain it to be!
Or, is your god a LUNATIC, like you?
Maybe!
But, one thing I know FOR SURE!
I have NOT, and WILL NEVER worship as god, something as PURE EVIL as you describe!
Have a good few weeks off, there Beef Supreme!
I will sincerely miss you!
Maybe you could join the other 7 billion or so (how the puck you ever arrived at that figure………. Well, who cares, when you can NEVER reason with a true insane LUNATIC) and go and visit with jesus, eh?
There is always “honor” in committing jesus-cide, just like your male human god ALLOWED HIS OWN MURDER to “happen”!
You Human Blood sacrifice “rationalization” “believers” are a TRUE scourge upon this earth!
But, I know that I will meet you here on BIN in another one of your MANY on line identities!
For, MADMAN, I know you cannot help yourself and really stay away!
P.S. a free kin g mail account?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Do you “work” for goggle (the real name…………………NSA)?
So, you are a disgusting Federal employee after all!
Well while we are sharing, Beefy boy, I am NOT a “vile cur”,
I AM an honest to “god” heretic, something that I know YOUR INSANE KIND of mind-manipulator, controller HATES and FEARS MORE than a Demon!
And, you should!
Bye for now, Jed!
“Am123, thank you for your invitation to “weigh in” on the law vs. grace issue!”
Why you’re welcome Mr. Supremacist
From quick scan of your list Mr. S, I see nothing but righteous judgments
And while I can’t speak to the accuracy of the total body count in the list you have provided, I can tell you the body count is about to go through the roof
For do you not know, have you not heard
The LORD is coming to shake the heavens and the earth (see HAGGAI 2:21) and to punish the hosts of heaven and kings of the earth (see ISAIAH 24:21)
A giant, glistening SWORD is being polished and sharpened as we speak
It is a SWORD for slaughter, for great SLAUGHTER
So that hearts may melt and the fallen be many, the giant, glistening, SWORD shall be stationed at the gates of all the cities (see EZEK 21:15)
For more see:
/prophecy/2013/10/shocking-nephilim-reptilians-watchers-things-that-go-bump-in-the-night-underground-beings-the-days-of-noah-spooky-not-2454990.html
Am123
YOU “people’ ARE MONSTERS!
YOU DESERVE THE FEMA RE-EDUCATION CAMPS THAT AWAIT YOU!
I WILL HELP TO IMPRISON YOU ALL!
“I WILL HELP TO IMPRISON YOU ALL!”
For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward Hebrews 2
Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. Acts7
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Hebrews 1
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. Hebrews7
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Romans 2
But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Acts15
But without faith it is impossible to please him Hebrews 11
And the law is not of faith Galatians3
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
John 6
there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. John5
For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Romans4
for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.2Corinthians3
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 15
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. Galatians4
And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. Galatians2
somi
Let’s review the very Words of our Savior Jesus Christ and see first what He has to say about the 10 Commandments, the very ones He wrote with His own finger on stone tablets on the mountain with Moses long ago.
These words the Lord spoke during the Lord’s Supper with His Apostles.
John 14: 15, “If you love me, keep my Commandments”
Some will say Christ was still “under the Law” when He made these statements. Please explain in a logical and credible manner why when Christ knew He would be dead in less then 24 hours and if it were true that at His death the Law is abolished — why would He instruct His Apostles to show Him love by keeping His Commandments for a few hours?
John 14: 21, “He that hath My Commandments and keepeth them he it is that loveth Me and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father and I will love and will manifest Myself to him.”
John 15: 8, “Herein is My Father glorified that ye bear much fruit so shall ye be
My disciples”.
9, “ As the Father hath loved Me so have I loved you, continue ye in My love.”
10 “If you keep My Commandments ye shall abide in My love even as I have kept My Father’s Commandments and abide in His love.”
On the very day of His death Christ is telling His Apostles if they want to abide or continue in HIS love; obey the Commandments. Even after reading verse 10 some still are struggling very hard to blot out the Law we are told by our Savior to abide in. They simply refuse to be subject to the Holy Law of God. Review Romans 8: 7.
The following are words of those same Apostles written years later.
1 John 2: 3 “And hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His Commandments”
4, “He that saith ‘I know Him and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.”
This is a very strong perfectly clear and blunt statement: he that claims to “know the Lord” and does not obey the 10 Commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in him. Is John a liar? The only Commandments John knew were the ones in the Old Testament; at the time this letter was written there was no New Testament. And yet many still reject the Holy Law of God refusing to live and abide by the Perfect Law but in the same breath claim “they know the Lord”. Christ and John call such LIARS.
1 John 3: 22, “And whatsoever we ask we receive of Him because we keep His Commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.”
1 John 5: 2, “By this we know that we love the children of God when we love God and keep His Commandments.”
3, For this is the love of God that we keep His Commandments and His Commandments are not grievous.”
But to men they are harsh and grievous thus calling Christ a liar.
II John 6,” And this is love that we walk after His Commandments. This is the Commandment that as ye have heard from the beginning ye should walk in it.”
James 1: 22,” But be ye doers of the word and not hears only, deceiving your own selves.”
Revelation 12: 17, “ And the dragon was wroth with the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her seed which keep the Commandment of God and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.”
This scripture explains during the Great Tribulation when the Beast Power is making war with the few Saints that remain alive – THE SAINTS ARE keeping the10 Commandments inspite of the Beast Power and the False Prophet persecuting and killing them.
And what is the Testimony of Jesus Christ? Exodus 31: 18 “And He gave unto Moses when He had made and end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of TESTIMONY, tables of stone written with the finger of GOD!” The finger of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 22: 14, “Blessed are they that DO His Commandments that they may have right to the tree of life (eternal life) and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
I rest my case upon the Words of Jesus Christ.
Do not confuse the “works of the Law” with obedience to the Commandments, the works of the Law are the sacrificial law that was added after the Covenant was agreed upon.
Mike if you read this, know that the above must be cast a side to believe as do you.
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Hebrews1
For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward Hebrews2
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.Galatians4
Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matthew28
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. John 6
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 6
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. Mark12
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded youMatthew28
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.Galatians 5
[Love] rejoiceth in the truth 1Corinthians13
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. John 1
Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Matthew3
The law and the prophets were until John Luke 16
For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
Luke 7
Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, til the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.Galatians 3
And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 1 Corinthians 9
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. John13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
John 15
By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. Hebrews 13
the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self‑control. Against such there is no law.Galatians 5
(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Ephesians5
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians2
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans10
Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith Phillippians3
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians3
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh Romans8
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Galatians 2
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Galatians4
And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Galatians 3
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect Romans4
that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit..For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8
sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law 1Corinthians15
for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. Romans 13
Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle Hebrews8
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.Revelation11
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia Galatians4
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God..Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them..For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. Hebrews7
the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.Isaiah 1
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews8
Telling people to obey the Law is like telling them to cut a tree with a chainsaw that is not running. Getting them to accept Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit is like starting the engine. Why can’t the legalists see this?
Telling people to keep the Law is like telling a blind man to admire a beautiful painting. Getting them to accept Christ is opening their eyes so that the can admire it. Why is this so hard for some?
Mike
“To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word —it is because there is no light in them” Isaiah 8:20
“Thou art near O Lord and all Thy Commandments are TRUTH!” PS. 119: 151
Mike there is no light in you and your words are NOT TRUTH.
In the two comments above you are unequivocally stating the HOLY Righteous Law of God is evil and without any value. You are stating God made an error a mistake by including the Law in the Old Covenant. Mike, it was never removed from Old and was included in the New Contract. Only the promises were changed in the New covenant nothing else.
The Time of Jacob’s Trouble is fast approaching us because we as the people of God refuse to obey our creator and you are teaching them disobedience.
“Mike there is no light in you”
Really
Truthseeker, no light 
Do you believe Mike pure evil
Or the antichrist 
or something 
“You are stating God made an error a mistake by including the Law in the Old Covenant.”
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
—Jeremiah 31:31-34
Am123
I did a study on the Old and New Covenants and I put it on BIN, you did not read it.
The old contract is between God and the Children of Israel, SO IS THE NEW, the parties to the contract have not changed.
In the Old the Children of Israel must obey the Law the Statues and the Judgments.
That was never changed in the New Covenant, their part of the agreement -their consideration- their side of the contract is to keep the Law. Show where that was changed?
There are two parties to a contract, one agrees to pay or do something (consideration) and one agrees to give or turn over something of value for the consideration offered.
In the old covenant, God, actually the one who became Christ, promises to provide physical things like protection, good weather, healthy children etc. Nothing more.
In the old there was no forgiveness, only death for transgressing the Law.
The only change from the old to the new are the promises of God.
God now promises forgiveness (Christ) and His Holy Spirit to give His converted ones the spiritual ability to live by every word of God. Then He added Eternal life. By putting the Father’s Spirit in the converted Saints The Father gave them the ability to begin to obey. How do you suppose God wrote His Law in them?
The old contract failed not because of the law but because the carnal humans could not live up to their agreement. The Law is not evil — the carnal flesh and blood humans can never obey the Holy Righteous Perfect LAW of God. I did not make up the HOLY Righteous Perfect part that is what God says about HIS LAW, the Law that Mike wants gone for good.
See your verse 34 ” I will remember their sin no more” if there is no Law it is impossible for there to be sin. That is a logical fact just like 2 + 2 = 4.
There is much more to this, it require more then just skimming the words.
I quoted the scripture that said if they do not speak according to the law there is no light in them, is Mike speaking according to Law? No
yay! now i can support abortion like all my friends do
))))) i always thought that whole puritanical don’t abort babies thing was kind of sketchy.
thanks mike!
?
(as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? Romans3
Romans 3:20 NLT For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.
QUESTION FOR THOSE ON THE SIDE OF THE LAW:
In chapter 15 of Acts, when the Apostles were confronted with a sect of the Pharisees that said the Gentiles should be circumcised and commanded to keep the law of Moses, there was a dispute. But the dispute ended when Peter asked why tempt God and put a yoke upon the neck of the Gentile disciples, a yoke which their forefathers were not able to bear. He made the point that we are saved through grace. That ended the debate. How do you reconcile your position or viewpoint in the light of the above?
QUESTION FOR THOSE ON THE SIDE OF GRACE:
In Hebrews, there is a curious comment by Paul that I believe gives us some insight into his thinking on this law vs. grace matter. Speaking about Jesus, our High Priest in the temple in heaven, Paul said:
“If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.”
—Hebrews 8:4
This hypothetical is interesting because this comment was made when grace had already come into play. Notice he does not say there would be no more law if Jesus were on earth. This situation does not seem to be a conundrum for Paul. Knowing that the law will not be done away with yet, Paul is comfortable with Jesus being our High Priest in heaven and having earthly priests in the Jewish temple on earth at the same time. So given that Paul is comfortable with the law still being practiced on the earth, would you be comfortable with the law of Moses being practiced in Israel during the Millennial Reign, for example?
ALTERNATIVE VIEW:
While it is true that the Law of Moses was made obsolete when Jesus was nailed to the cross and died for the sins of mankind (see Hebrews 8:13), the Law will not be done away with until this present earth and heaven disappear. Jesus came to fulfill the Law, which remains intact for this present heaven and earth (see Matthew 5:17-18). Then when the Alpha and Omega creates the new heavens and the new earth (see Revelation 21:5), the obsolete Law of Moses will be done away with permanently and the new eternal order of things, the age to come, will apply as spoken of by the Book of Revelation, the Book of Ezekiel, and other books in the Bible. However, for those who belong to the High Priest Jesus, who is in the order of Melchizedek (see Hebrews 5:6), we can partake now, by faith, of the eternal things to come, of the age to come. We can enter into the Most Holy of Holies in heaven via the blood of the Jesus. We are free now from the Law of Moses as we can now partake of the age to come by faith. That freedom however, does not give one a license to commit sexual immorality. That would be insulting the Spirit of grace.
This verse says that the Old Testament is filled with teaching in pictures of truth or types.
1 Corinthians 10:11 DBY Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.
So, what does this in Joshua teach us in type? The names Joshua and Jesus are identical.
Joshua 1: 1-2 …the LORD spake unto Joshua …saying, Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.
People say some silly things. Someone asked: ” If love fulfills the Law then does that mean you can ignore the rules if you love?”
That is like asking that if you love your wife is it alright to be unfaithful to her as long as she never finds out, or, if you love your children is it alright to neglect them as long as DFCS doesn’t find out.
I can picture a legalist getting their face slapped as they tell a loving mother: ” I know you love your children but you still have to take care of them you know”.
Here is another one: “if you love babies you are free to kill them”.
You can’t make this stuff up.
am123, we may not always agree but you are always civil. I appreciate that about you. We can disagree without calling names and making accusations.
Thanks Mike.
I was hoping the comments in this law vs. grace article would go better than the last time
.
But lo and behold, Truthseeker seems intent on making it into a knockdown, drag out, let the wildly exaggerated accusations fly type of thing
am123 & Mike
am123, Do you give a false doctrine alert when you see lies presented? Yes you do!
When I see Mike present an article saying in effect, God gave man a horrible law that His Son had to come and take off mans back, It gets to me! and I am not sorry for that. It is actually two lies, as Christ wrote the Law on the two tables of stone not the Father. Christ is God in the Old Testament, Christ came to reveal the Father.
I came with an article that gave good facts and logic showing what was nailed to the stake, it was not the Law of Moses that was nailed and you will not read it. Yes it is deep and requires reading slowly with your brain in gear.
I have another out right now on “born again”, the Word of God shows there are none born again as yet. You will not read it either. If you will not take the time and the required use of your brain then all I can do is to show, quickly, with a little logic and some pointed scriptures, where you and Mike are in error. My hope is to keep others from following your errors.
If that up set you and Mike — so be it.
“am123, Do you give a false doctrine alert when you see lies presented? Yes you do!”
I do not equate issuing a false doctrine alert the same as saying to someone there is no light
in you, especially someone like Mike, who does his best to bring the Gospel the best he knows how.
You utterly fail
to see the grace side of the equation TS.
So can you please weigh in on the controversy of law vs. grace what is your answer to this:
In chapter 15 of Acts, when the Apostles were confronted with a sect of the Pharisees that said the Gentiles should be circumcised and commanded to keep the law of Moses, there was a dispute. But the dispute ended when Peter asked why tempt God and put a yoke upon the neck of the Gentile disciples, a yoke which their forefathers were not able to bear. He made the point that we are saved through grace. That ended the debate. How do you reconcile your position or viewpoint in the light of the above?
Can you answer that question TS
It is the same thing, am123, your alerts and those of Truthseeker. The “no light in you” admonition is Scriptural and it was made clear with quotes.
To alleviate doubt about me, i know that the Law was not put aside. Do i follow the Law? Heck i hardly know where to begin with my failings.
am 123
I will give an answer to your question in Acts 15, I doubt it will help, for some reason you can not seem to understand the way I write using logic and scripture. Another reason is you are basing your beliefs on false premises.
First one; that the 10 Commandments were nailed to the stake.
Second, that the term “works of the law’ mean one is obeying God’s Law.
third, that obeying the Law was remove from the New Covenant and is no longer a part of the WAY of God.
Forth, that the Sacrificial law is part of the Law of Moses and included in the Covenant.
Fifth, Christ lived perfectly the WAY of God and then told us to live another way. Do as I say and not as I do, is what most believe Christ wants. Who today follows Christ by patterning their lives after His? He kept the Sabbath (7th day) most keep the 1st day, He kept the Days of Unleavened Bread, most keep easter. etc.
There are more but this is enough for this comment.
I have written articles on all 5 and much more which you never read. Thus when I explain it is impossible for you to understand, I say dog and cat comes to your mind. Plus I am not even sure you read my comments word for word.
Here is the Circumcision situation.
The Covenant of Circumcision:
The Covenant of Circumcision was made directly with Abraham by God, it did not come through Moses and even though it was given to Abraham by God in a physical contract it always pointed to Christ and the Spiritual circumcision without hands Jesus Christ performs on all of God’s Saints.
Physical circumcision should be included under the term ‘works of the Law’ and as the Apostles concluded when it became a problem, physical circumcision is not to be performed as a requirement for salvation.
Jeremiah 4: 4
4 “Circumcise yourselves to the Lord and take away the foreskins of your heart ye men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem lest My fury come forth like the fire and burn that none can quench it because if the evil of your doings.”
God the Father through Jesus Christ is cutting away the ‘stony heart’ of carnal human nature (spiritual circumcision) and giving His Saints the spiritual heart of God’s Holy Righteous Divine Nature by His Holy Spirit.
Colossians 2: 11
11 “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.”
This is clear: putting off or cutting away – this body of flesh that is sin (man’s carnal human nature), by the circumcision without hands performed by Christ.
Romans 2: 29
29 “ But he is a Jew which is one inwardly and circumcision that of the heart in the spirit and not in the letter.”
When Jesus Christ brought the Spiritual New Covenant, the 10 Commandments were completed or filled up by adding the spiritual component (hating a man in your mind) to the physical Law: physical circumcision became spiritual with the New covenant: spiritual circumcision without hands.
Under the New Covenant Christ is circumcising our carnal human nature (cutting it away) and replace it with the Divine Holy Righteous Nature of God the Father (the Holy Spirit). Physical circumcision never made a single person righteous or forgave anything and was never incumbent upon God’s Ecclesia.
This will make no sense if you hold to catholic and other doctrinal errors.
What took place in Acts 15 has nothing to do with obeying the Holy Law of God. The Jews pushing circumcision also adhered to all the physical works of the Law. Once this is understood it becomes clear, Christ fulfilled all the Works of the Law by His sacrifice and thus
once fulfilled the works of the law were completed and no longer needed.
Here is a thought, why not ask our Father in prayer to guide you in understand HIS WAY more perfectly. Then you will know if what I write is in error.
One last question, when God calls His Law Holy, the TRUTH, the LIGHT, the WAY, The beginning of wisdom and on and on, have you ever asked yourself this question, why would God that describes HIS Law with these terms then as Mike says, remove it because it is so difficult and harsh and is against man?
Does God want to take the Truth away from us, that is what you are saying if you claim Christ came to abort the Law. Please roll this around in your mind, think about what you believe, does it make sense?
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. John1
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life
John 14
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith Hebrews12
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Romans6
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Romans2
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans3
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. Romans7
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Revelation 19
@Mayhem,
You said:
“The “no light in you” admonition is Scriptural and it was made clear with quotes.”
The line I was referring to from TS is below (the quotes on the ends are mine):
“Mike there is no light in you and your words are NOT TRUTH.”
If by Scriptural you are referring to John 11:10, I don’t see that as applicable here.
@Truthseeker,
You said:
“or some reason you can not seem to understand the way I write using logic and scripture”
That is correct. For example, I am confused by your answers in this post. I still don’t know if you agree or not if in chapter 15 Acts the Apostles should have put the yoke of the Law on Gentile believers or not. Maybe this question will help if you just answer yes or no to this:
Should the Apostles have put the yoke of the Law on the Gentile believers, yes or no?
Here is an example of your logic and writing that confuses me
. You said:
“third, that obeying the Law was remove from the New Covenant and is no longer a part of the WAY of God.
Forth, that the Sacrificial law is part of the Law of Moses and included in the Covenant.”
So it first appears like you’re say obeying the Law doesn’t apply to the New Covenant, but then you turn around and say the sacrificial law parts of the Law are included in the New Covenant.
So I can’t really respond to you because I don’t know where you’re coming from and it appears like you are contradicting yourself.
You also said:
“Does God want to take the Truth away from us, that is what you are saying if you claim Christ came to abort the Law.”
I do not claim Jesus came to abort the Law.
am123
the 5 points I listed are “false beliefs” held by you and many others, in the sentence just above I said:
“Another reason is you are basing your beliefs on false premises.”
and then I listed the 5 false beliefs. Those are not my beliefs they are yours. And I have articles explaining every one and why they are false.
AM 123, when you look at what I write through the lens of those 5 false beliefs, as I said I am saying dog and you hear cat. Until you take the time to read from beginning to end one of the articles you will not understand where I am coming from.
I know where you are coming from you do not know where I am coming from, you are on the surface and I start on the surface and dig down to the foundations. I want to know how the whole House is built from top to bottom.
Look at Mike, he believes that salvation can come by keeping the Law. I would never have guessed anyone would think or believe that, I was shocked. That means he has not the first clue why Christ gave Moses the sacrificial Law. How can I discuss doctrine with him?
This is called an exercise in futility.
TS,
You said:
“and then I listed the 5 false beliefs. Those are not my beliefs they are yours.”
They are not my beliefs. You write down what you think my beliefs are (and you are inaccurate) and base your argument on what you say my beliefs are. That’s not the way debating works. I get to say what my beliefs are, not you.
You said:
“This is called an exercise in futility.”
Now there is something we agree on
.
You may wonder why Christians never questioned the inspiration of the Bible upon first being introduced to it. Well I think that one of the main reasons they don’t question the Bible’s divine inspiration upon their initial conversion into Christianity is due to the incredible promise of eternal life that they are promised upon conversion. They are so overjoyed and amazed at the offer of eternal life in heaven, offered to them for free just for believing, that their left brain never stops to analyze what they’ve been preached. Another reason is that preachers and evangelists often use sentiment, emotion and touching stories to convert people, rather than reason. Or if they were raised by Christian families, then of course as a child they wouldn’t initially question their religious theology, since children generally assume that what their parents tell them is true.
Now, here’s the big shocker. What followers of Christian fundamentalists don’t know and never realize is: NOWHERE in the Bible does it claim to be God’s word. And NOWHERE in the Bible does it claim to be infallible. The doctrine of Biblical inspiration and infallibility was made up by Christian fundamentalists to create an artificial foundation for their faith. Fundamentalists love to cite 2 Timothy 3:16; however, the “Scriptures” referred to in that verse refer to the Old Testament, and the term “inspiration” does not mean “word of God” either. (i.e. if a tree inspires me to write a poem about it, is that poem my words or the tree’s words?) In any case, NOWHERE in the Bible does it claim that all 66 books in it are infallible. Nowhere. Period. That’s something Christians say, not the Bible or God. In fact, many of the authors of the Bible had no idea that their books would be canonized into an “infallible word of God” book. Even in Paul’s epistles, he made it clear that he was writing personal letters, not dictating whatever God was telling him to write down. He even says literally in three verses in his epistles that these are his words, and not God’s! (see below examples) Furthermore, even if the Bible did claim to be God’s word or infallible, that wouldn’t make it so either. I could take any of the millions of books in the world, and write in somewhere, “This book is the word of God. It is infallible.” But would that make it so?
There are two vague verses though, that Christians use to attempt to prove that the Bible is God’s word. These two verses though, pose problems and raise more questions that preachers don’t address, cause they can’t. Let’s look at them now. Here’s the first one.
2 Timothy 3:16
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.”
First of all, the term “All Scripture” could easily and logically refer to the Old Testament or the Ten Commandments because a) Jesus used the word scripture many times to refer to the Old Testament canons, so to be consistent we must assume that here as well, and b) at the time this verse was written, the New Testament as we have it today was not even put together yet! Now, since modern Evangelical Christian theology is based mainly on the teachings of the New Testament of course, that means that this verse doesn’t really support the core Christian theological teachings of today!
Second, just because someone was “inspired” by something to write does not mean that that which caused the inspiration wrote it directly verbatim. That’s not what the word “inspiration” even means. For example, if a beautiful sunset inspired me to write a poem, that doesn’t mean that the sunset itself wrote the poem, only that the sunset motivated me to write it. The definition of the word “inspire” obviously is not that the “inspirer” is dictating their words verbatim as if it were their own. Here is the definition of “inspire” from the American Heritage Dictionary:
1. To affect, guide, or arouse by divine influence.
2. To fill with enlivening or exalting emotion: hymns that inspire the congregation; an artist who was inspired by Impressionism.
3a. To stimulate to action; motivate: a sales force that was inspired by the prospect of a bonus. b. To affect or touch: The falling leaves inspired her with sadness.
4. To draw forth; elicit or arouse: a teacher who inspired admiration and respect.
5. To be the cause or source of; bring about: an invention that inspired many imitations.
6. To draw in (air) by inhaling.
7. Archaic a. To breathe on. b. To breathe life into.
Third, no matter what this verse referred to, one verse out of over 33,000 Bible verses does not make all the verses divinely inspired, especially the verses of the other books of the Bible which don’t always even agree with each other. So the idea of one verse out of one book proving divinity in all 66 books is completely absurd and non-sensical. And as we know, words are just that – words. They don’t create reality or fact. Therefore, just because a verse like this implies that the Bible is the word of God doesn’t make the whole Bible the word of God. In fact, the majority of the books of the Bible do not even claim to be the word of God. Not even Paul claimed that his letters and epistles were the word of God. But nevertheless, even if hundreds or thousands of verses in the Bible said that they were the word of God, that still wouldn’t make it so either. I could take any book in the world, and pen in them somewhere the words, “All words in this book are given by inspiration of God…..” but would that make them God’s infallible word?!
Although the Bible claims to contain the words of God when it says “The Lord spoke” or “Thus sayeth the Lord”, even if God really did say those things, that doesn’t mean that when Paul said “I say” this and that, that it is the same thing. Nor does it mean that all the verses where God speaks directly reflect what he actually said either.
Now, here’s the other verse they use to claim divine inspiration of the Bible.
2 Peter 1: 20-21
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
Again, it obviously is referring to the prophecies of Old Testament prophets and perhaps scriptures, not to the whole Bible. Therefore, the three problems above apply to this verse as well. And as mentioned, Christian theology and teaching is based primarily on the Church’s interpretation of the New Testament.
Three verses that say the Bible ISN’T God’s word!
Now, here’s the kicker. There are THREE verses in the New Testament that claim that the Bible is NOT the exact word of God! Here let me show you!
1 Corinthians 7:12
“But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.”
The Apostle Paul clearly says here in the first sentence “speak I, NOT the Lord”. He is saying that these words he is about to say are from him and not God! It’s in plain language. This alone technically invalidates the fundamentalist doctrine that every word in the Bible is uttered directly by God. It alone shatters this absolute claim of theirs. There is no defense. However, there are two more similar verses like it to shatter the doctrine even further beyond what’s necessary. Later on in the same chapter, Paul says:
1 Corinthians 7:25
“Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.”
You see here how Paul is saying that he is using his best personal judgment, and that what he’s saying is not directly from God? He is telling you that he is writing his own opinion. Then, in Paul’s next letter to the Corinthians, he says:
2 Corinthians 11:17
“That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.”
Again, the same claim by Paul.
Christian apologists, when countered with these verses, usually respond by claiming either that 1) Paul was adding to Jesus’ commands, or 2) Paul was being inspired without himself knowing it. Now those are very bizarre explanations indeed, which don’t even address this issue. Either way, even if those two explanations are true, they still shatter the doctrine of Biblical infallibility. And furthermore, in regards to the second explanation, why would God “inspire” Paul to say that his words were NOT from God?!
Now add up the score. ONE verse versus THREE! This extreme doctrine is shattered three times over. It’s been disproven by 300 percent! Game over.
In addition, all one has to do is to take a look at the opening line of the epistles in the New Testament by Paul and other writers, and you will easily notice that the author is addressing his “letter” to a specific church or group of people at the time. This means that it is obvious in clear language that they were writing a letter for certain people or congregations, to either instruct them or give them encouragement, and not writing some infallible scriptures to be placed in a Bible to represent God’s word verbatim to all mankind!
What is odd is that while the Evangelists and Apologists emphasize this doctrine of Biblical infallibility so strongly and obsessively as if it were the central issue, the Bible itself doesn’t even do that. In fact, these Apologists only have two vague verses they use to justify this core doctrine of theirs. If this doctrine of Biblical infallibility was so central and core to Christianity as they claim, then why are there only two vague verses about it, out of over 33,000?
As mentioned before, the doctrine of Biblical infallibility was not a central tenet of Christianity until early in the 20th century when the theory of evolution began to be taught as fact in classrooms. It was then that the Christians countered with this doctrine. Not only did it protect Christian tenets from the danger of Darwinist teachings, but it served other purposes as well. You see, without the doctrine that the Bible is infallible and that every word of it is of God, it would put question marks on every verse. Anyone could then pick and choose which parts of it they wanted to be God’s word and which they didn’t, and that would greatly undermine the authority of it. So this doctrine is necessary to keep the religion intact. Otherwise, Christians themselves would not be able to feel secure and confident that every verse in the Bible could be trusted.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=22
The truth points to itself, seek and you will find
007
where does it say that the Saints of God are going to heaven? Do you really know the Word of God?
In God’s WORD does He not say MY LAW IS TRUTH, My LAW IS LIGHT, My Word is sure, etc?
I do not have a problem point out the errors of the 4000 flavors of so called christianity because they are not following the WAY.
Go after them all you want. I would not advise faulting God or His Word.
We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens ;a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. Hebrews8
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus Ephesians2
The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Matthew4
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
John 6
And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Acts 11
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.1Peter4
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.John 5
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Revelation 19
John 6: 28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
1 John 3: 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
The Law Ten Commandments) was not destroyed, I never said it was. I was not, cannot, and was never given to save anyone. There are two ways to be saved: (1) absolute and total obedience to the very last detail of the Law, (2) trusting in the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ alone plus nothing. No one has ever done the first.
My hope is in the righteousness of Jesus Christ alone. I look to nothing else. I preach nothing else. If anyone preaches any other way the Bible says he is accursed.
Pursuing the Law does not lead to Salvation, Mike. This here is the stumbling block. You think that is what we are claiming. Salvation comes through the Grace of the Father through Faith in Yehoshua Messiah as we seek Yahweh.
The Law purposes to guide and humble the faithful so that they know their place and might receive the promise.
Mayhem is right.
Pursuing the Law does not lead to Salvation, though it is something that we should constantly strive to keep. Would the serial killer or the sodomite be saved who trusted in Yahushua? How do we interpret the iniquity in our hearts without the Law? How would we know what to repent for? Should we even repent anymore?
Messiah did not come to abolish the Law; He came to keep the Law – to execute it in its fullness in HUMAN FORM – not in a different way – but in a perfect and complete way. While it is clear that the Messiah counted His teaching ever as much an authority as the Law, nowhere in Scripture are we led to believe that He considered His Word as a replacement for the Law. Instead, His life, words, and teaching were necessary for a CORRECT understanding of the Law, and only through His revelation could the purpose of the Law and the prophets be realized.
“If anyone preaches any other way the Bible says he is accursed.”
Out of all the great mysteries in the Bible, your obsession with turning people away from following the Law is highly suspect. There is just no logic in trying to convince people to ignore the Law. Honestly, what good does this do? None. All that this teaching does is lead people who are less Biblically astute than you or I to become less aware and apologetic of their sinful natures.
Complete obedience to the Law and thus salvation is a hypothetical situation. IF you could, then you could be saved by it be saved.
Luke 18: 18-20
“And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
Jesus answered:
“Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.”
Mike,
I am through after this one,
If hypothetically you could keep the law — and as you claim be saved, then you must show the promise of God offering eternal to anyone that can keep the Law. The Old Contract offered no eternal life at all period. So when did this occur?
the quote in Luke does not at all show Christ saying to earn eternal life just keep the commandments. Christ used this to show the rich man valued his wealth more then the Kingdom of God and in fact the rich man broke the Commandment “Thy shall have no other gods before me” The rich man’s god was his wealth and this is a fact even more so today.
Mike, I don’t know what to say, are you just shooting from the hip?
MIKEEEE,
YOU CAN NOT BE SAVED BY OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW!!!!!
Show me where obeying the Law ever promised salvation, Ever promised eternal life!
In the Old Covenant God promise was physical blessings and that is it period, NEVER WAS SALVATION OFFERED FOR KEEPING THE LAW.
FYI
I’m not sure about whether any of you are educated in the New Age philosophy, but I am. It’s important to study our enemies. One common thread that I have noticed in many of these works is the conviction that the Law is EVIL. What does that mean for us you might ask? Well if Satan’s religion doesn’t want us to keep the Law, then that means that we should probably keep the Law.
Messiah sayeth thus…
“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.” Matt 5:17
… and thank you to B4IN for having this debate repeatedly. It takes much effort on the part of the commentators and the only reward is knowing that a few more can no longer deny this Truth.
Matthew 11:13 NKJV For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Luke 16: 16 NLT “Until John the Baptist, the law of Moses and the messages of the prophets were your guides. But now the Good News of the Kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is eager to get in.
Luke 24: 44 KJV And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
John 1: 17 KJV For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Romans 10: 4 NLT For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.
Galatians 3: 19 NLT … But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised…
Galatians 4: 4-5 NIV But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.
Ephesians 2: 15 KJV (Christ) Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Hebrews 7: 11-12 NLT So if the priesthood of Levi, on which the law was based, could have achieved the perfection God intended, why did God need to establish a different priesthood, with a priest in the order of Melchizedek instead of the order of Levi and Aaron? And if the priesthood is changed, the law must also be changed to permit it.
Hebrews 10: 1 NLT The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves
Mat 5:1 But seeing the crowds, He went up into the mountain, and seating Himself, His disciples came near to Him.
Mat 5:2 And opening His mouth, He taught them, saying:
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit! For theirs is the kingdom of the Heavens.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are the ones mourning! For they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek! For they shall inherit the earth. Psa. 37:11
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness! For they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful! For they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart! For they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers! For they shall be called sons of God.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake! For theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are you when they shall reproach you, and persecute you, and shall say every evil word against you, lying, on account of Me.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice and leap for joy, for your reward is great in Heaven; for in this way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Mat 5:13 You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt becomes tasteless, with what shall it be salted? For it has strength for nothing any more but to be thrown out and to be trampled under by men.
Mat 5:14 You are the light of the world. A city situated on a mountain cannot be hidden.
Mat 5:15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under the grain measure, but on the lampstand; and it shines for all those in the house.
Mat 5:16 So let your light shine before men, so that they may see your good works, and may glorify your Father in Heaven.
Mat 5:17 Do not think that I came to annul the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to annul, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 Truly I say to you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, in no way shall one iota or one point pass away from the Law until all comes to pass.
Mat 5:19 Therefore, whoever relaxes one of these commandments, the least, and shall teach men so, he shall be called least in the kingdom of Heaven. But whoever does and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of Heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say to you, If your righteousness shall not exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of God, never!
Mat 5:21 You have heard that it was said to the ancients: “Do not commit murder!” And, Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the Judgment. Ex. 20:13; Deut. 5:17
Mat 5:22 But I say to you, Everyone who is angry with his brother without cause shall be liable to the Judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca, shall be liable to the sanhedrin; but whoever says, Fool! shall be liable to be thrown into the fire of Hell.
Mat 5:23 Then if you offer your gift on the altar, and remember there that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go. First, be reconciled to your brother, and then coming, offer your gift.
Mat 5:25 Be well intentioned toward your opponent quickly, while you are in the way with him, that the opponent not deliver you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.
Mat 5:26 Truly, I say to you, In no way shall you come out from there until you pay the last kodrantes.
Mat 5:27 You have heard that it was said to the ancients: “Do not commit adultery.” Ex. 20:14; Deut. 5:18
Mat 5:28 But I say to you, Everyone looking at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Mat 5:29 But if your right eye offends you, take it out and throw it from you, for it is profitable to you that one of your members should perish and all your body not be thrown into Hell.
Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you, for it is profitable to you that one of your members should perish and all your body not be thrown into Hell.
Mat 5:31 It was also said, Whoever puts away his wife, “let him give her a bill of divorce.” Deut. 24:1
Mat 5:32 But I say to you, Whoever puts away his wife, apart from a matter of fornication, causes her to commit adultery. And whoever shall marry the one put away commits adultery.
Mat 5:33 Again, you have heard that it was said to the ancients: “You shall not swear falsely, but shall give your oaths to the Lord.” Lev. 19:12; Num. 30:2
Mat 5:34 But I say to you, Do not swear at all, neither by Heaven, because it is God’s throne; Isa. 66:1
Mat 5:35 nor by the earth, because it is the footstool of His feet; nor by Jerusalem, because it is the city of the great King. Isa. 66:1; Psa. 48:2
Mat 5:36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you are not able to make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 But let your word be Yes, yes; No, no. For the excess of these is from evil.
Mat 5:38 You have heard that it was said: “An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth;” Ex. 21:24; Lev. 24:20; Deut. 19:21
Mat 5:39 but I say to you, Do not resist the evil; but whoever strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Mat 5:40 And to him desiring to sue you, and to take your tunic, allow him also to have the coat.
Mat 5:41 And whoever shall compel you to go one mile, go two with him.
Mat 5:42 He asking you to give, and he wishing to borrow from you, do not turn away.
Mat 5:43 You have heard that it was said, “You shall love your neighbor” and hate your enemy; Lev. 19:18
Mat 5:44 but I say to you, Love your enemies; bless those cursing you, do well to those hating you; and pray for those abusing and persecuting you,
Mat 5:45 so that you may become sons of your Father in Heaven. Because He causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax-collectors do the same?
Mat 5:47 And if you only greet your brothers, what exceptional thing do you do? Do not the tax-collectors do so?
Mat 5:48 Therefore, you be perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect.
Yeah thanks Anonymous but i really do think we probably all have copies and it’s a fact we’ve all got the interweb. Your contribution is without point, therefore pointless.
I find it illuminating that the actual words of Christ have 2 negative votes.
Lots of comments. Some have the same writing style but different names. Sockpuppets?
Yeah that’ll be it. You couldn’t possibly be wrong so some guy has made up multiple accounts just to thoroughly examine your doctrine in the light of Scripture all the while ignoring or deriding the opinions of men that support your claim.
Is that about the gist of it, Mike? You’ve obviously read Alinsky’s work, same as me. Claim the victory regardless of the result in the vain hope that few will read such a long blog, yes?. You’d feel vindicated simply through stealing the last say and i won’t allow you that comfort, Mike. I want your discomfort to cause you to look to the Word and to know within yourself what the Truth is.
I think there are sockpuppets on here and I think I know which is which. It is too obvious to ignore.
I would like to challenge you on this completely ridiculous claim but I have a hard time believing that you would listen to anything that doesn’t conform to these suspicions.
Are you saying that there are no sockpuppets? I know there are. I have seen it admitted on here.
Well, Truthseeker and am123 are obviously different people.
Me and Mayhem are obviously different people. You can click on my article ‘Prophecy in Stone’ to see how we were introduced.
Once you figure that out it should be pretty evident based on our writing style that Mayhem and I are neither Truthseeker nor am123.
There is clearly only one Pharisee.org.
I don’t really think anybody else has contributed anything intellectual to this discussion.
Some1 and anonymous might be the same because all they do is quote Scripture.
If there are sockpuppets on here then their contribution has been entirely irrelevant.
There most certainly are sock-puppets. There you go with guessing what i meant from what i didn’t say, again. It’s rude, Mike and i exercise patience with you.
Your assertion is irrelevant, as you’ve already been told, and is up to any readers to sort out for themselves. I’m only too happy to give out my IP address.
[email protected]
“There most certainly are sock-puppets. There you go with guessing what i meant from what i didn’t say, again. It’s rude, Mike and i exercise patience with you.”
Did I say something wrong?
Is your name Mike, Omega Files? You’ll get used to how the threads stack according to their own mystical algorithms.
I too think the duplicity of some is easily spotted although i did use to flirt with Church Lady who turned out being a full bearded grown male fast tracking dotage.
None of the folk you mentioned are involved with such silliness as far as i can tell and Mike simply finds his conundrum unbearable and must either change his doctrine or deny the Truth. He’ll probably behave badly while he wrestles with this knew, to him, knowledge.
I wish him well and hope he continues wanting to bring folk to Jesus.
“It’s rude, Mike and i exercise patience with you.” @ me
Simple misunderstanding. I had to double check because this can be read two different ways by moving the comma over one word:
“It’s rude Mike, I exercise patience with you.” @ mike
I get your point and could have been more clear. Thank you for pointing that out Omega Files. That would have been some turn around on my part though. “Mike and I” wasn’t what i meant to say. Funny how it all sounded fine in my head, lol.
Matthew 5:17-20:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
In Matthew 5:17, the Greek word used for ‘destroy’ was καταλύω (kataluō), which means “to tear down,” “demolish,” and/or “do away with”. It was a commonly used word around the 1st century A.D. when referring to the demolition/destruction of buildings/temples as well as the nullifying or replacing of laws and constitutions. In this verse, the Messiah explicitly says that destruction is not the mission of His incarnation in regards to the Law and the prophets. Such a strong statement from Jesus on the issue of the Law is proof that, to one extent or another, His teachings were being misinterpreted by His opponents. The Messiah, therefore, found it necessary to speak on behalf of this issue to make Himself clear. The subsequent debates in the early church as to the role of the Law (such as in Acts 15) clearly demonstrate further that the issues of how the Law was to be lived out among the disciples of Jesus had not been universally settled.
TWICE the word “destroy” is used (both times using the same Greek word mentioned in the previous paragraph) in the FIRST line. This would have only been done to assure His disciples that the “destruction” of the Law was in direct opposition with His role to “fulfill”. The word used for “fulfill” was πληρῶσαι (plerōsai) and means to “establish”, “confirm”, “deepen”, and/or “extend”; none of which suggest the absolution of the Law. So the Messiah is not “fulfilling” the Law and prophets by replacing it. His words were carefully chosen here to clearly establish the longevity of the Law and prophets as contained in the written Torah.
Perhaps the best clue to the meaning of “fulfill” in this parable is the parallelism that is evident in verse 19. Simply put, the design of the parable, and especially in verse 19, suggests that what Jesus meant by “fulfilling” in verse 17 was “doing.” “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the prophets”; that is, to act and teach as though the Scriptures were no longer an authority. So the Messiah came not to “destroy”, but to “fulfill”; not to “neglect” the Scriptures, but to “obey” them. Thus, Jesus was asking His disciples to understand that one of His essential purposes for coming as the “promised” Messiah was to “expound” the Law and the prophets both by His Words and, especially, by His actions. He came to explain how one could actually do the Law, and what the purpose of doing the Law was; to overcome sin. He came to execute the Law and the Prophets in their fullness in HUMAN FORM – not in a different way – but in a perfect and complete way.
So if the obvious parallels in verse 19 are given their due respect, we see that the design of this parable indicates that verses 18 and 19 act as a reflection for the terms “destroy” and “fulfill” that we see in verse 17. That would then further bolster the argument that the Greek word used for “fulfill” suggests that we must remain faithful to the Law. Thus, a more proper translation for the final paraphrase in verse 17 might be: “I did not come to destroy but to keep” (the Law).
The end point of Messiah’s affirmation of the present day validity of the Law and the prophets is foretold in reference to the passing away of heaven and earth. The only other use of this phrase is in Matthew 24:35 which seems to parallel the verse under question: “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” Thus, the expression “heaven and earth” is not quite equivalent to “forever” but could be understood as: “for long as the current world order exists” – until the time of His return. In contrast, the Word of Messiah will endure beyond the demise of the present world order.
It may be argued by some that the aforementioned profound statement by Jesus in Matthew 24:35 (that His words would never pass away) puts His teaching above the Law, or at least gives to His own words a timelessness which He does not ascribe to the Law. But while it is clear that the Messiah counted His teaching ever as much an authority as the Law, nowhere in Scripture are we led to believe that He considered His words as a replacement for the Law. Instead, His life, words, and teaching were necessary for a CORRECT understanding of the Law, and only through His revelation could the purpose of the Law and the prophets be realized.
At this point, the parallelism begins to become obvious. In the same way that the Law is fulfilled even to the smallest stroke, letter, and punctuation, so must the Law be followed, even to the least commandment, until heaven and earth pass away. It then becomes clear that “destroy” and “fulfill” have much to do with whether or not the Law is maintained in practice throughout our temporal existence. Therefore, “Fulfill” cannot possibly suggest a nullification of the “doing” because in this parallel, “destroying” is the opposite of “doing”. It then becomes unreasonable to suggest that Jesus Spoke about a “fulfilling” that envisions the “destruction” of the “doing.” The Ten Commandments are the Father’s summation of the Law and ought to be our focus in applying ourselves to keeping the Law – it is our guide for repentance.
omega file
we have not talked before, so I wanted to commend you on the comment above. well done!
A comment in passing you may want to consider, when Christ said He would fulfill the Law I believe in Strong’s a further definition is to complete. When you read further, Christ says the Law is now expanded from actually murdering someone to include hating them in your mind.
My understanding: Christ came to take the law from only physical to Spiritual as well, to complete the Law with the spiritual application.
As I failed to explain to am123, it is best to view something from top to bottom, from the foundation on up. If you only view the surface you do not know what is under it. You took this apart to see how it was built. Refreshing.
“When you read further, Christ says the Law is now expanded from actually murdering someone to include hating them in your mind.”
I really appreciate your advice and additional insight. Keep fighting the good the fight.
Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Romans10
But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. John15
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 5
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. John5
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Hebrews2
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Acts2
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1 Corinthians 2
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.2Peter3
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 2 Corinthians3
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes. Romans2
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things Acts17
And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. Luke22
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matthew 11
For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Romans5
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. Romans6
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 15
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John8
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1 John 3
for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.1John5
He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians3
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Galatians 5
Torah never meant “law”. The scribes and clerics chose that translation because its more truthful Hebrew translation destroys the entire concept of Christianity and its substitution for God’s everlasting Covenant. Torah means teaching, instruction and prescriptions for living. It is through careful consideration and close examination of God’s Torah, precisely what He requests of us in His own first person testimony, that becomes the beginning of the path to life. The insights and connections one makes through this careful examination is what leads one to fall in love with God and to understand His terms and conditions, to engage and act upon them, for being adopted into the family oriented Covenant. That inevitably leads to complete understanding and reliance, not faith or belief.
Seek and you shall find. It takes some effort, not fluency in ancient Hebrew, but nonetheless effort to see how the beautiful ancient language of God opens these insights. This produces a very different understanding than what is put forth by religious clerics through scribal errors or outright religious deceptions. But there is always the “New Testament” and its wildly divergent versions, to struggle through nonsensical prose, seeking some cabalistic, pagan oriented experience. We have a choice. The Torah is extraordinarily accurate compared to the most ancient, extant writings, the Dead Sea Scrolls. The so-called “New Testament”, the “inerrant Bible” is wildly divergent even amongst its most ancient writings right up to the thousands of variations today. Even the Massorites writing in the 11th Century accurately scribed the Torah with only about one word in 14 diverging from the most ancient writings, as revealed by the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Paul said, “But I say..” (contradicting what God said). I choose to examine what God said, not what a wannabe disciple who never walked one step with the Messiah, claims is a new, improved version of what God laid out as His everlasting and unchanging Covenant.
How could “Torah” mean the Law? it clearly means instruction/teaching and is the first five books of the Tanakh, or Old Testament if that helps. Ta-Na-Kh three concepts Genesis through Malachi.
Ta = Torah
Na = Prophets.
Kh = Writings.
I’m certain the Torah can comfortably be described as “The Law” although i don’t chose to do so myself. Saying the “Law of Torah” is not nearly the same thing as what you argue, Anonymous. Torah reveals our Creation as well as teaches us the Law and gives guidance for Life and living well and is so much more than only the Law. You may not place your limits upon His Word with out i object.
Then we add to this the Textus receptus or New Testament but that’s not for this debate.
The Law of Moses will be done away with at the end of the Millennial Reign. And when the Law of Moses passes away and Ezekiel’s temple kicks in (when the new heavens and new earth are created), in addition to the ark of the covenant, gone from the temple furnishings will be the table of shew bread, the laver filled with water, the Lampstand or Menorah, the golden altar of incense, and the veil. All of these temple furnishings from Solomon’s temple will be gone in Ezekiel’s temple. But there will remain two temple furnishings in Ezekiel’s temple (see EZEK 40:49) that will remain from Solomon’s temple, and that is, two much overlook temple furnishings, the two pillars to the right and to the left of the entrance into the Holy Place. In Solomon’s temple, at the entrance to the Holy Place, there was a pillar to the north called Boaz and a pillar to the south called Jakin, or Jachin (see 1 Kings 7:21). Boaz means “in him is strength” and Jakin means “he establishes”. These two pillars represent the two olive trees who stand before the LORD. For more on this, see:
/prophecy/2014/02/the-mystery-of-god-in-the-book-of-revelation-the-two-witnesses-the-manchild-and-the-destroyer-as-you-have-never-heard-them-spoken-of-before-2458894.html
am123:
Do you ever stop putting out your garbage?
What you call garbage I call truth. So to answer your question, no.
am123 I think you will find the Christmas article interesting. If you haven’t heard about the evidence for Christ actually being born on Dec. 25th I think you will be surprised at how strong it is.
The pagan roots of Christmas teaching is relatively new and part of it comes from occult sources. The main source has been discredited.
am 123
I have a suggestion, I have seen you searching here and there getting your thoughts from other men. I trust not one man, I do not search out what others think. I know what is in the heart and mind of man.
I pray and I do not read the Bible — I study the Word of God — I want to be taught by my Father. I start on the surface and dig down to the foundation, in doing so the truth becomes clear. The article on born again came from the Bible and Prayer, I consulted no one else.
I am not on BIN to learn, I am here to learn how to better expound the Truth of God, to make it as clear as I possible can. Yes I have a long way to go.
I do not dislike any on BIN BUT I abhor the doctrine of the 4000 flavors of so called christianity.
I am not looking for a response from you, we are far far apart, but in brotherly love I wanted to pass on the above thoughts.
Truthseeker,
You said:
“The article on born again came from the Bible and Prayer, I consulted no one else.”
Herein lies one huge factor in the difference between us: my latest article came from the Bible, prayer, and the Holy Spirit, I consulted no one else.
am 123
So God teaches conflicting doctrine? Why is there 4000 plus or minus flavors? is this of God? How close are you to the way the 4000 worship?
am123 I can never accept what you espouse, I must follow Christ in every thing, I study Christ and follow His life and example that He set for us, the 4000 find ways to by pass the Sabbath, the Holy Days, the Food Laws, the Law etc. they cut and paste their own religion.
I can never convince you, and you will never prove your way to me.
am123 I think your approach is the right one. My previous article and my parable come from a plain reading of the New Testament. Any eighth grader who sat down and read the New Testament would see it.
When these legalists come on and tell me that all the Bibles available to us can’t be trusted, that all the great men of God are lying to us. (Men whose names are known and whose lives matched their preaching.)
They agree that a plain reading of the Bibles we have teaches what I have said here but claim it is because of a grand conspiracy that has affected all the Bibles, Greek helps, and commentaries. Then they tell us we cannot believe our own eyes and what we can plainly see. Legalists whose error is as great as their pompas egos, and whose tactics are intimidation and convoluted rigmarole.
Keep on doing what you are doing. I think your approach is exactly right.
@Mike,
Thank you much.
@Truthseeker,
Conflicting doctrine
What doctrine are you talking about and what conflicts……oh never mind, let’s just leave it where it is
Once again, your tactics are entirely suspect, Mike.
Stop calling names. Stop insulting by insinuating the ‘legalists’ are too stupid to see what you can see.
Did these GREAT MEN (so-called) you speak of not bring you Christmas, Easter, Sunday worship and gross violations of idolatry?
Once again, the evidence you point to does not agree with the picture you are painting. And if you are incapable of seeing the vastness of the conspiracy to mislead believers from YHWH to Satan, then perhaps it is YOUR intelligence which should now be placed under indictment.
Again I will say, your handling of this matter calls your behavior as a man into question. As a believer — your handling of this matter has been utterly atrocious.
On that other matter — why don’t you simply try the direct approach and ask everyone here whether or not they employ alternate accounts? I have not done so since it became a problem a few months ago. It was a mistake when I did it, although my reasons for doing it were purely related to amusement. I do not care whether you believe this to be true. I am forbidden to lie to you or to anyone else. BOTH Testaments from Scripture forbid believers lying. So ask. I vowed then on the open board NEVER again to participate in that practice.
I have seen you ask Truthseeker. I will encourage him to answer you, though I can confidently tell you now that he has never employed an alternate account here, at any time.
I am not Mayhem or Omega Files. Omega and Mayhem are not the same person. Simple examination of the evidence should have taught you this much by now. You are becoming reckless in your stance. The kind of obstinacy and churlishness you are demonstrating is roundly excoriated throughout the entire body of Scripture.
Yes, YOUR zionist SHILL TACTICS are EASY to “figure out, oh, ye, EVIL SUPREME!
Wasting away another day, oh, CRAZY, DEMENTED, JED SUPREME!
You maniacs for a god with a dick, have fun arguing away!
ABOUT NOTHING, as, YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED!
No MORE religious freedom for you violent HOARDING SHILLS FOR A BLOODY TYRANT OF A god (with a dick)!
You all will be …off to see the FEMA Camp, for some extensive re-education!
I, THE BEEF SUPREMACIST, HAVE PASSED JUDGEMENT, AND WRITTEN THE WORD OF TRUTH!
Aahhhhhhhh……….. THE HORROR OF LYING, CHEATING and very VIOLENT chris O CREEPS……………. THE HORROR OF LYING, CHEATING and very VIOLENT chris O CREEPS
Beef said:
“your tactics are entirely suspect”
“if you are incapable of seeing”
“it is YOUR intelligence which should now be placed under indictment”
“your handling of this matter calls your behavior as a man into question.”
” your handling of this matter has been utterly atrocious”
“You are becoming reckless”
“The kind of obstinacy and churlishness you are demonstrating is roundly excoriated throughout the entire body of Scripture.”
I rest my case about the pompas egos and intimidation tactics.
I agree with the last quote but I think you should look in a mirror when you read it.
So BEEF, you’re not “Beef Supremacist” ?
By the way Beef, as you know I have an article about Sunday that I absolutely stand behind. I will be doing one on Christmas as the season approaches showing that is does not come from paganism and that Jesus was actually born on December 25Th.
Mike:
I really do look forward to seeing your next article being that I have a similar one myself.
/prophecy/2014/02/santas-clause-requiem-for-a-pole-shift-2458732.html?currentSplittedPage=0
Here’s an excerpt for all to see:
Perhaps the strangest of all references to the Biblical Nimrod is the allusion to his unholy trinity. According to legend, Nimrod (Osiris) had a wife named Semiramis (Isis), whom bore a son by the name of Tammuz (Horus). After Nimrod’s death, Semiramis began preaching that Tammuz was Nimrod reborn. Nimrod becomes the satanic power behind Tammuz, Semiramis becomes the false prophet, and Tammuz takes on attributes of a false Christ. Semiramis declared that Tammuz was supernaturally conceived and that he was the savior of mankind. Semiramis knew of the story of a coming messiah, conceived through an occult virgin birth, and was sentenced to death only to be resurrected. Tammuz gains his power and authority because of Nimrod’s previous position. His mother proclaims that Nimrod has been reborn, so in a sense, Nimrod has been resurrected, and Tammuz is just the vessel he is using. After his death, Tammuz descends into the underworld and through the weeping of his mother he is resurrected in the form of vegetation. His death was celebrated by throwing a log into a fire and letting it burn all night. Once the log was burned up, they celebrated the resurrection of Tammuz by erecting and decorating a tree [obelisk - phallus], which is where we get the Yule Log and Christmas tree traditions. Please note that the Bible mentions Tammuz only once, but it is in reference to his death being part of pagan worship.
Over time, Semiramis/Isis/ became known as the Mother Goddess [mother earth – Gaia] and the Queen of Heaven, under names Ishtar, Eostre, Astarte, Ostera, and Eastre. All of these names are where we derive the word for, and the tradition of, Easter. Semiramis was associated with fertility and one symbol used to represent her was a rabbit which was intended to represent hyper-sexualization; not virginity. As time went on, Semiramis was said to have originally hatched from a giant egg, leaving us with the Easter egg as a permanent part of modern society which wrongly perceives Easter as a holiday connected to the ‘Virgin’ Mary.
When the Catholic Church came into power, they switched Semiramis with Mary as the Queen of Heaven, associated Easter with the resurrection of Christ, turned the Roman festival of Saturnalia (December 25th) into the birthday of Christ, and adopted the practices of log burning and decorating of trees as part of the celebration of Christ’s birth. Finally, in 321 A.D., Constantine the Great issues an edict to make Sun-day the official day of worship in order to appease Christians and sun worshipers. Sunday as a day of worship links back to the ancient practice of Babylonian sun worship.
The most obvious corruption of Biblical text can be found in plain sight within the tradition of Santa Clause. Christmas is Satan’s favorite holiday. The name S-A-N-T-A is simply an anagram for S-A-T-A-N and HO-HO-HO is Hebrew for 6-6-6. One must seriously ask themselves, who receives millions of letters from anxious children every December? Not Jesus. Who do more parents encourage their children to believe in, and behave well for? Not Jesus. Who promises rewards every year in this life, without waiting for the next? And when children finally grow up and realize they were tricked into believing in Santa, who doesn’t really exist, might their distrust of beings without physical evidence carry over to ruin their faith in Jesus?
So Santa drives a sky chariot like the sun god Apollo and Santa’s chariot is tied to eight reindeer, like the sun has eight planets. Santa’s reindeer have names that make it clear the planets they represent move violently. Santa, on his sun-chariot, leaves his position at the North Pole at the winter solstice holiday, indicating an eventual pole shift at this time of year. What is important to keep in mind is that Santa’s holiday is often symbolized by the axis with a pole star above it – the world tree with a star on top. Often, the center is conceived as an axis, represented as a mountain, a stairway or ladder, a pole, or a tree. It is most evidently symbolized in our Christmas tree, with the pivotal star at its summit. Santa will not enter a house through the door, only through the chimney. Jesus tells us in John 10:9: “I am the door; if anyone enters through me, he will be saved.” Santa is the opposite of salvation, he represents the materialism of this world and he comes with fire and ash and soot along the vertical axis. John 10:1 says, “Truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief.” Santa is a thief of milk and cookies and children’s beliefs, misdirected at Christmas time.
“I really do look forward to seeing your next article”
I concur Mike, that sounds interesting.
And that’s some interesting stuff you have shared Omega. I know not the truth of the matter, so I am open minded about it and it is good we explore such things.
In the meantime, I also have a Christmas article, although it is not along the lines of the date, origins of the traditions of Christmas, etc. that you guys speak of. My Christmas article just speaks of the actual event itself that started it all. To see that:
/alternative/2013/12/ho-ho-holy-is-the-lord-of-hosts-who-came-down-to-us-in-the-flesh-that-first-christmas-morn-some-2000-years-ago-when-the-babe-in-bethlehem-was-born-2855546.html
Mike Clinton
The “birthday” of Jesus is of course unknown, not even the year of his miraculous birth is known. The church just stole the already popular date of the 25th December, which in Antiquity was an immensely popular celebration of the birth of the sungod Mithra, – “the light of the world”.
The story of Jesus was originally an allegorical story based partly on the Jewish exodus myth and Joshua/Jesus ben Nun, successor of Moses, the Jewish Messiah-myth and the widespread pagan myth of the dying and resurrected godman Dionysos-Osiris. Later uneducated Christians in Rome, people without the insight and understanding of the deeper meaning of the texts, started to take these allegorical stories for their face value, and Literary Christianity as we know it was born.
Now, who was the real Son of God, born by a mortal virgin mother, and often presented as the venerated newborn infant, or depicted riding a donkey? He healed the sick and did numerous wonders, among those making fine wine from plain water. He was killed but resurrected from the dead and became immortal. The followers of this God often ate a holy meal in a kind of sacramental union with the deity to achieve immortality after their death. One of this god’s finest achievements was his death, his sacrifice, which delivers the whole human kind.
The God was the very popular Dionysos
Who is the “Light of the World”, the One, the God who defeated death? Born of a virgin mother, considered the first true King by the people. Who rose from the grave and ascended to heaven. He defeated death, and must be considered the single true God.
Of course the Egyptian Osiris!
Now, the real God often called the “Light of the world”, “The good shepherd”, “The lamb” and is “…the way, the truth, and the life”. Identified with a cross. Who could that be?
Horus, (the son of Osiris).
The original “Light of the world” was the mediator between God and man and was born on the 25.th of December. Local shepherds witnessed his birth and gave him gifts. He had 12 disciples, and when his work was done on earth he gathered together to a last supper, and then ascended to heaven. At doomsday he will return to pass judgment on both the living and the dead. The righteous will go to heaven and the sinful will be killed in a giant fire. Sunday is his holyday, and this religion gave us the seven days of the week. His followers called each other “brothers” and their leaders “fathers”. They practiced babtism and established a sacred meal ritual, where flesh and blood was symbolically consumed by initiates. Above earth was heaven, and below the dark hell with demons and the sinners.
The ‘Light of the World’ is of course the sungod Mithra.
Wise men were led to his birth by a star, and his conception was miraculous. After his birth the ruler in the area wanted him dead and started a hunt for the child. But his parents were warned by a heavenly messenger who told them to escape over the river with the holy child. Here, he was met by shepherds. The boy grew up and did many great deeds, and was the mediator between God and man.
His name: Krishna.
Who then, was the God whose mother was told by an angel that she would give birth to a holy child destined to be a Saviour? Even as a child he instructed the priests in the temple in religous matters, while his parents were looking for him. He started his religious career when he was ca 30 years of age, and surrounded himself with 12 disciples. One of the disciples is his favorite another is a traitor. He and his disciples abstain from wealth and travel around talking in parables and metaphors. This God called himself “Son of Man” and was referred to as “Prophet”, “Master” and “Lord”. He did many great wonders and healed the sick, blind could see again and deaf hear.
He also walked on water. When one of his disciples tried to do the same, he started to sink – his faith was not strong enough.
We are here obviously talking about Buddha.
Our Saviour cannot be mistaken for any other. He performed countless miracles on earth, miracles well attested to by bystanders. He healed the sick and the crippled, restored sight to the blind, cast out demons, and even raised the dead! His birth was of a virgin, foretold by an angel. While still a child, he exhibited extraordinary knowledge of religious scripture. He reformed the corrupt and worldly religions of his day. He was crucified, rose from the tomb and appeared to his disciples to prove to them his power over death, after which he ascended to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. He was known as “the Son of God!” His message is of love and compassion.
We give you: Apollonius of Tyana*
And there is of course the God-man, the prophet, the founder of a great monotheistic religion that still exist today. He preached that there was only one true God, and his teachings focused on the eternal fight between good and evil. The teachings include the idea of the Saviour will wake the dead and pass judgment on all. The righteous ones goes to Paradise and the sinful straight to a burning Hell. The very word of Paradise stems from this religion. This semigod started his career in his early thirties, and had a following of disciples. As a band of monks they wandered around, preaching their religion. He was eventually killed and sent to heaven.
And he was the Persian Zarathustra.
The problem for Jesus is that all these deities are much older than him. You don’t have to be very bright to see where the authors of the Gospels got their “devine inspiration” when they created the Jewish version of the popular God-Man/ World-Saviour of Antiquity.
Source:
http://www.bandoli.no/historicalrecords.htm
“The problem for Jesus is that all these deities are much older than him. ”
The problem for all these deities is they are all dead, but Jesus is alive
You can identify where a person’s heart is spiritualy in their walk with God the Father by what they directly confess about His Commandments.
Will their heart completely surrender to God’s heart, holding nothing back in reserve!
Faithfully following Christ’s example of obedience, opening his soul wide open, exposing his naked heart to Father in supreme submission ( True Trust in Father’s choice for him )
God’s Commandments are from God’s heart. God is Love. Love with no guile, Love with no bitterness. Love without a speck of darkness.
God’s grace gift of Holy Spirit is the believers true counselor, the believers true mentor.
Guiding, directing them to Truth in a world totally deceived by the devil, overflowing with Lies.
Truthseeker, you have clearly explained the beauty of Father’s heart here for all to see that desire to. Truth exposes Lies. You have proven that Truth is available for those who desire it.
Thanks to you for your faithful obedience to Father’s Commands. Know that you do not stand alone. What a privilege it is to stand for Father’s heart, His Commandments!!!
There is nothing to earn. It already is; you can never loose or stop being that which you truly are.
A divine being eternally connected to the Source God/Goddess.
We are all one, all we have to do is accept that which we truly are.
A perfect being cannot have conflict; love and retribution cannot occupy the
same house. It either is or it isn’t .
The apple never falls far from the tree, so if you in you unperfect earthly form could not
send your own child away to eternal torment how could the perfect magnificent being
which you are created in do the same to you?
Spirit is timeless and eternal. That swhy in the Father/Mothers house there are many mansions.
Perfection has no conflict.
Do you mean “lose?”
Yes………..
We cannot stop being that which we truly are.
Just as one cannot stop being the race that they are during
our existence is on this earth. There are laws in the universe; this grand illusion
that ends.
My God/Goddess is the baddest, if you are the baddest in the land
there is no need for jealousy.
“Good King Wenceslas – a 10th century nobleman known for leaving the warmth and comfort of the palace in the harsh winters to minister to cold and hungry peasants. There is a Christmas Carol about him.”
Yep, shame giving to the less fortunate at the mid winter solstice, is shamanic Siberian in origin and very much more ancient than 10th century King Wenceslas.
He didn’t deserve a song seeing as there would not have been any cold hungry peasants if he’d been a better person the rest of the time.
You know, one has to ask why you are associating benevolence with a despotic king, for his single annual display of compassion by throwing a few crumbs at the peasants he was treating as slave scum the rest of the year.
There has not been a single king in all of history that didn’t enslave the population as their subjects. They all impoverish their subjects, to the point of starvation, for which you are claiming is benevolence. Your idea of benevolence is keeping people so poor they starve and need a few crumbs from their slave masters table to survive through the winter.
That is not benevolence, it’s damage control.
Pix, Wenceslas was never a king, he was a duke. A regal title was given to him posthumously. There was king by the same name who reigned three centuries later. In his life duke Wenceslas was well know for his good deeds to the poor.