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THE SHOCKING, DISGUSTING UNDERBELLY OF THE HEBREW ROOTS MOVEMENT EXPOSED
THE SHOCKING, DISGUSTING UNDERBELLY OF THE HEBREW ROOTS MOVEMENT EXPOSED
I posted a comment on my Facebook page about the two groups that troubled the Early Church, the Judaizers and the Gnostics. I will post it at the bottom. To my surprise it exploded with attacks from folks in the Hebrew Roots Movement. (They all seem to deny that they are HRM) It ended up with 645 comments.
I started out with my usual questions to them: “Do you keep the Commandments yourself?” As it progressed they all admitted that they did not keep the Commandments but explained that what they did was “guard” the Commandments. Now, I don’t know what this means and it is hard to get it out of them but it looks like what they mean is that they should tell people to keep the Commandments even though they don’t do it. Strange, but it gets much worse.
I gave up on trying to understand the definition of “guard” the Commandments and moved on to my next question. (Trying to pin the HRM people to a single point is like trying to catch a greased pig.) I asked them: “are you saying keep the Ten Commandments or the whole Law of Moses?”‘ They all replied that we should keep the whole Law of Moses. Well, I pointed out that under Moses people could have multiple wives, concubines, and slaves. I asked if they thought that we should go back to this also. To my utter amazement they all said we should and the wife of one guy actually came on under her own name and said she had no problem with her husband having more than one wife. (As I am writing this the wife of one of the others just liked the comment) They said anything that is not explicitly forbidden in Torah is not a sin. Then I pointed out that young girls could be married and I gave them the scripture. I asked if this was acceptable to them too, and they said yes. I asked how young and one suggested as young as 14 years old.
A MUSLIM SLAVE
This is not the first time I have run into this with these folks. I have had others say the same thing. I had one of their prominent teachers post an article saying this on my prophesy page which, of course, I immediately deleted and blocked the one posting it.
This is a growing movement and is a very dangerous one. I think it is time to take a strong stand against it or we will look like the Mormons or one of the Muslim nations.
Supplemental note: some in the HRM have not gone this far yet. They are like the “Porch Masons” who do not know the deeper implications of what they are involved in. This article shows the natural, logical result of this twisted way of thinking.
Mike Clinton, Hiawassee Ga. April 28, 2014
THE TWO GROUPS WHO CAUSED TROUBLE IN THE EARLY CHURCH ARE BACK AGAIN
The early church had two groups who tried to pervert the message of salvation: the Gnostics and the Judaizers. Much of the New Testament was written to warn about them.
The Gnostics claimed to have superior, esoteric knowledge about mystical things and twisted the Gospel to fit their ideas. The tendency to rely on our own ideas and try to twist the scripture to fit them is a serious problem in Christianity today. I have heard more than one teacher say that the Holy Spirit is more important than the Bible and we must listen to the Holy Spirit first. This is separating two things that should not be separated. The Holy Spirit speaks through the scriptures. All impressions we have must be filtered through the Scriptures. We are to test the spirits as to whether they are from God. The only way to do this is with the Bible.
The Judaizers were a group who tried to bring the early converts under the Laws of Moses. This is the group that followed Paul around and caused trouble everywhere he preached the Gospel. They taught that faith alone was not sufficient, that the converts must also keep the Law. A plain reading of the Book of Galatians will show this group for what they were. Today this group is back again. I hear more about Moses, the Torah, the Tanakh, and the Sabbath from them than I do about Jesus. They only mention the Lord because it looks bad if they don’t.
So, isn’t it interesting that in the beginning we had to contend against these two groups and now, in the closing days of the church age, we are having to do it again?
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GREAT post!
OLD testament ….. NEW testament.
OLD covenant …… NEW covenant.
Jesus was the FINAL sacrifice, thus ending the NEED for the (THIRD)Temple in Jerusalem since there should be no more ANIMAL SACRIFICES …… Jesus was the LAMB of God.
Jesus FULFILLED the LAW ….. no more need for the OPPRESSIVE and ARCHAIC OLD testament laws that denied the HUMANITY of all except MALE JEWISH.
The three MAGI (wise men of ZOROASTARIANISM) brought gifts of GOLD, FRANKINCENSE, and MYRRH to Baby Jesus. Do you think they came all that way, dropped off their VALUABLE gifts, and left?! NO! they stayed and imparted their beliefs. Then, when Jesus was 12, he used those gifts to pay his expenses to travel to INDIA and complete his studies of YOGA/HINDUISM nand He became an “Enlightened Master” (He achieved CHRIST CONSCIOUSNESS) THEN, when He was 32/33 He returned to Palestine to spread what He had learned IN INDIA.
this is the fruit of MASONIC Zionism, like Mormon,Jehovah Witness and even the likes of John Haggee.
“No one comes to the Father except thru HIM”- Jesus. all the other claptrap isa waste oftime
And you were doing so well in your first few lines.
THESE are LAWS of the TORAH ….
The LAWS of a WAR god …..
ANTI-loving-forgiving-CHRISTian ….
‘In the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes’–Deuteronomy 20:16-18
Israel EXONERATES the Nazis
The Nazis copied the Jewish TORAH point by point
KILL THE SICK and CRIPPLED
Numbers c.5 v.2-4
KILL HOMOSEXUALS
Leviticus c.20 v.13 well, really the whole chapter
KILL ALL DISSIDENTS:
Exodus c.32 v.27
Numbers c.11 v.1-2
Numbers c.16 all
Numbers c.21 v.5-6
Numbers v.26 v.10
KILL anyone who engages in “DIVERSITY” or “INTEGRATION”
Numbers v25 v.4-8
Deuteronomy c.14 v.2
DEHUMANIZE and then EXTERMINATE ALL NON-MEMBERS:
Numbers c.21 v.03 Canaanites
Numbers c.21 v.24 Amorites
Numbers c.21 v.33-35 Bashan
Numbers c.31 all Midianites
Numbers c.32 v. more Amorites
Deuteronomy c.2 v.34 People of Heshbon
Deuteronomy c.3 v.6 really the whole chapter. threescore cities
Joshua c.12 A list of victims of Israeli GENOCIDE
Where are THEIR “holocaust” Memorials!
OCCUPY YOUR VICTIM’S DWELLINGS/LAND
Numbers c.21 v.25
Numbers c.32 v.39
Numbers c.33 v.53
(just to name a FEW)
GENOCIDE CODIFIED IN THEIR RELIGION
Numbers c.33 v.31-34
Deuteronomy c.7 v.2
Deuteronomy c.12 v.28-30
Deuteronomy c.20 v.11-16
TERRORISM CODIFIED IN THEIR RELIGION
Deuteronomy c.2 v.2
Deuteronomy c.7 v.1
“I posted a comment on my Facebook page about the two groups that troubled the Early Church, the Judaizers and the Gnostics”
The Gnostics (100 BCE) were influenced by Zoroastrianism/Mithraism (1’100 BCE), which was influenced by Atenism monotheism invented by the inbred Egyptian Pharaoh Amenhotep IV, (1’300 BCE), which also influenced the Judeans (1’100 BCE), which influenced Judaism (70 CE) and thus Christianity, Catholics (450 CE) and Protestantism (1’500 CE) and Islam (700 CE).
What and whose early church are you talking about
I find this to be very true and I have had discussions with both Judaizers and Gnostics on my page. The Judaizers are beyond reason and they reject everything Paul wrote off hand. The Gnostics in the Church, for the most part, are too spaced out to recognize that you are writing about them. One thing of interest is that the Illuminati and the secret societies like the Masons, mix Gnosticism with ancient pagan religion. They strongly believe that they have been blessed with a supernatural wisdom, based on their bloodline; a wisdom denied lesser beings. They have no trouble rising to leadership in our churches, pretending to believe what we believe, “going along with our naive and primitive beliefs” believing that they have the superior blood, knowledge and secret wisdom that gives them both the right and the obligation to guide us on our way but sworn by blood oath to never reveal their secrets to us… Gnosticism in the church leads to people like Kenneth Copeland submitting himself and his church to the Pope.
far more serious than Copeland’s friendliness with the pope, are his blasphemous teachings about Jesus and salvation which if known by the pope would be rejected by him, they are against even Roman Catholic doctrine.
i consider myself part of the hebrew roots movement. we don’t really have a name and we don’t like to be put in a box. we are Yah’s children with faith in the saving grace of the Messiah. your article here is completely wrong. i am wondering if people posted to your facebook to make us look bad. and another thing, get the plank out of your own eye before you judge others. we read the Whole bible. it is all God inspired. we don’t believe in polygamy. we don’t marry children. we don’t want to kill anyone. we don’t judge. we do not like to be with sinners even though we realize we are not perfect ourselves, but we go to the Messiah for help with our sins. we do keep all the commandments throughout the whole bible. only the laws we can keep for our times. we are mostly about loving all people no matter what. love and mercy is key. we don’t like evil worldly happenings cause we see the devil controlling many things and people. we don’t do man’s made up worship. there are very few of us. i have many friends and family in different religions and i don’t bug them about that. i evangelize with my actions of peace and kindness of how Yahuah would want us to be. He is a kind, patient, forgiving Creator of this world. that is all through the scriptures. Yah does not like evil. evil means anything against His Word. we have peace knowing the helpers and comforters that the Father has given us, His Son, the angels, the set-apart Spirit, His Word. please look on u tube for lew white, eliyah, messenger of the name. you will find the true hebrew roots beliefs. we only want to love everyone. does this sound dangerous to you? peace to all.
Anonymous, I don’t consider myself HBR as I have just recently heard of them. But through FB I have been gathered with a group of believers that has taken the whole Bible seriously and see the Pagan influences in the modern day church. We don’t believe that the Eternal Law of God was nailed to the cross, like those with itchy ears profess. Now this self righteous man who put this article together took our comments completely out of context, much like he does the Bible. His accusations are false and entirely missed the whole point that we were trying to make. You can read this stuff for yourself @ https://www.facebook.com/michael.clinton.148/posts/10202238698834292?comment_id=10202269270078554&offset=0&total_comments=687¬if_t=feed_comment_reply
Steve Carr is the one who suggested 14 years old as the age for sex and marriage. They are still defending it on my page. My Facebook page and prophecy page link has been on this article from the start.
Thanks a lot Steve Carr, not only have you been a constant nuisance on Facebook but now you seem to have messed my page up because of this link you put on. It is not working now.
Mike come on, do you really think that this link can possibly have anything to do with your other page. That is not how these things work. And that you could NOT possibly fathom that God is trying to get a message to you. He loves you so much that He is desperately trying to get you to come out of Babylon. Humble yourself, pray to Him and ask Him to reveal these things to you if indeed they are true. Drop the profane and pick up the Holy and He will bless you greatly for it. He recognizes your ability to lead people and He wants you on His team. To be a helper to the destruction of Babylon in these “End Times”. Call to Him with a humble heart and let these quibbling’s go. He is faithful even when we are not. Check with the Spirit to see if these things are not so. For everything happens for a purpose. God did not send me into your life to condemn you or call you names. He sent me because He has a message for you. The things that I say are easily verified if you simply humble yourself.
i am anon Mr. Carr, sorry but i would never go on facebook. have a good day, sir.
This is the first post regarding the above article that doesn’t absolutely REEK of disinformation and deceit.
Is any man able to obey all of the commandments? There are only 10. Go ahead; cast “the first stone” !
I don’t think you understand the first stone: https://www.facebook.com/notes/anson-bergonzi/who-shall-cast-the-first-stone/10151906014002998
Then you reject God’s righteousness, which is expressed thus, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, saith the Lord”.
You clearly preach a different gospel from the one we received from the beginning.
And btw, you are commanded by your Lord to preach the gospel to the lost, so you are a disobedient servant, and for that, you will be judged.
Your words remind me of the so-called believers whom the Lord spews forth from His mouth.
Repent.
I think you know what I was getting at; NOBODY’S PERFECT!
i would like to add…. we are israel. grafted in. we are not jews or gnostics. we don’t do talmud or have any mystery religions. we might be the scattered tribes mentioned in the scriptures, but i surely don’t know my genealogy. read Hebrews 4 and exodus 31. it’s about the 7th day Sabbath. i wonder why people don’t keep that commandment? it’s about resting. also, Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 is the new covenant that says His Laws will be in your heart and all shall know His Laws. i’m afraid some people are blinded to His Word and can’t understand it. this is the only way i can figure when things are clearly written in the bible in black and white that a child can understand. strange stuff. i pray for you all.
People keep saying that the folks who posted on my wall are not typical of the HRM. You should see the comments that have been coming in all day saying the same thing. Comments justifying sex with 14 year olds, multiple wives, and slavery. One man has three wives and calls Paul a false Apostle.
you know the old tire cliche a few rotten apples can ruin the whole bunch. Not every one who believes in calling on the messiah’s true name believes what you claim or understands the bible in such a manner as you say. any TRUE believer will seek the truth and abide by it to the best of their abilities, even if at first it makes them uncomfortable. Like learning the origin of the name Jesus and the real name of Yeshuah and how it is impossible to be Jesus based on historical and grammatical information. I was once a catholic until I learned about what I was following and decided to actually read the bible and learn some of the words in the original language. That’s it. I also realize that to understand what I’m reading it’s important to look at the history behind it and the culture of the times. You can’t just lump all of a belief in to child molesters, murderers and polygomous sex addicts, it’s not sound judgement. and for that matter the same can be said for mormons who claim to be christian. Learning the true word of God is important, not joining movement, only truth matters.
Polygamist sex addicts??? Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and David were sex addicts?????
Anson, reread and think about it please. It’s in reference to the comment and article, not calling any one in the bible with multiple wives sex addicts. Indeed these things still go on today in other cultures and religions. I think some people understand my meaning. The fact is we can all attack each other on one thing or another for differences in understanding but we need to realize that a house divided against itself cannot stand. In the end what this amounts to is a bunch of children bickering about who dad loves more or who’s right or wrong when what we really need to do is do what dad wants and try to get along because there’s a real enemy out there that seeks to kill and destroy and we’re giving him an advantage to while we’re all fighting amongst each other.
So then what, only modern polygamists are sex addicts?? What makes the polygamists in the Bible and now different? Has man somehow changed or evolved??
I’d be more than happy to do a video debate with you. And I’ll answer every question you have. If you’re not too scared that is.
Why do you just say you SHOULD see them, instead of posting them.
You do realize that Mary was likely even as young as 14 when YHWH God knocked her up right? Or is it only not sick when God does that to teenage girls?
Your language is foul and offensive, and clearly comes forth from a mind mired in sin.
@HereAmI He made similar statement on my page. That is why I am having to block him and his ilk from coming on my personal but public Facebook page.
Whats offensive? Is what I said false? Michael lied and twisted what we said. He tries to make us out to be pedophiles for saying the scientific fact that many females bodies are fully matured at 14, and that historical fact that girls got married at 14 quite often. And we pointed out that YHWH God did not condemn nor speak against such a thing EVER. Michael didn’t argue that the God that HE serves allowed men to marry 14 year old girls and never said it was a sin, but he calls us perverse for pointing out that fact.
Anson Bergonzi’s wife is the one who came on and said she didn’t mind him having more than one wife. This is the man just like I said in the article. Here he is still defending sex with 14 year olds.
Evidently Anson Bergonzi’s comments are still awaiting approval as I write this. He says I blocked him from my page and I did. These folks are nuts. Like the Judaizes of Paul’s day they will stalk you around on Facebook and cover your page with links, cut and pasts and comments to try and drown out anything you say. They are mean spirited and vindictive. I have had to block more than one.
People who are in the Hebrew Roots Movement and say this is not what the HRM is about just haven’t gone “all the way” yet. They start out saying we don’t understand Paul and end up saying Paul is a false Apostle. They start out saying Jesus observed Torah and end up replacing Jesus with Torah. Some already have more than one wife and the only reason they are not 14 years old is the fear of being arrested. One of my friends said “this should be called
“The Dirty Old Man Movement”. I think he pinned the tail on the donkey with that characterization.
hello mike, i am the peaceable hebrew roots anon person who posted above. i do see your dilemma in trying to figure out what is going on in this movement. there are some comments on here that would give the HRM a bad rap. there are funny people in this world. and we gotta love em all then run quickly away from them. pray for them. i am glad you brought up this form of worshiping Our Father, Mike. there is much misunderstanding. HRM read the scriptures and DO OBEY Yah’s laws as is possible. we are conservative, law abiding folks. i personally don’t ever go on facebook. i know every word on the computers can be looked at by anyone and i don’t have the time to go on cause i work and give of my time as much as i can to do the work of the Father. i sincerely try to tame my mouth to uplift and not hurt anyone, even if i don’t agree with them. here’s a hint to find a true HRM person: you will know them by their fruits. we love the fruits of the Spirit as given in Galatians. any mean spirited, argumentative, prideful words are not good. i would like to give you one of my favorite bible passages: Jeremiah 6:16 “Thus says Yahuah:
“Stand in the Ways and see,
And ask for the old paths, where the good Way is,
And walk in it;
Then you will find rest for your souls.
But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’
may Yah have mercy on us all.
@Anonymous, I believe you are sincere. Thanks for your comments. Jer. 6:16 is one of my favorite passages. “If it’s new, it’s not true and, if it’s true, it’s not new.”
thanks Mike, i comment sometimes here on BIN. i would love to post stories, but i am unsure because out beloved brother Paul said women should not teach men and the teachers have the greater judgement. i applaud your bravery in getting the Word out as the Father has given you to understand. you see, it is the Father Above who runs things. He gives out His light differently to different people. that is why i don’t judge and argue with people of different faiths. i can only save myself. i was a catholic. one day, out of the blue, i was shoved by the Spirit to question my faith in Catholicism. i read the bible and never went back. i don’t know why this happened and it has been life changing and kinda hard. my husband is not pleased. i feel blessed and protected more now. i look to those above, not those on earth. Colossians 3. Mike, be open minded to learn His Ways. if you feel you are doing His Will, then stick with it. pray, that works! bless you for your work in the name (Yahuah is what i was given) of the Father.
You are such a blessing! I use YHWH when I post, but I too was given Yahuah as the Father’s name one evening as I cried out to Him in prayer. I was so confused because of all the arguing over His name… I never knew the Father even had a name, oh the wickedness of men to have hidden His name. It was in that moment that God revealed His name, such peace flooded the room… The Father’s name is in the Son’s… you can see it Yahuah is in Yahushuah. It was such a sweet moment, like poetry softly spoken to my soul… it was with that moment that I realized that everything I was taught in secular religion, had to been untaught… I went back to the beginning, allowing the Ruach to doing the teaching, trusting only in the Father’s Word and by doing so, the whole Word of God became alive. I finally understood that the references to Judaizers was not about those teaching God’s laws, but the Jewish Rabbinical laws i.e oral laws/Talmud. I pray that more seek Yahuah’s Wisdom, trusting in the Authority placed over us, our Head, which is Yahushuah Ha’Mashiach and truly allow the Ruach to become their Teacher, accepting His correction through conviction and through All Scripture.
2 Timothy 3:16
(ESV)
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
yahschild hello, isn’t it funny on here to see the different religious beliefs. there is supposed to be one body, one Spirit, one Truth. Yahuah is not the El of confusion. the HRM (box of a name) know and can see His Truths. we don’t disagree with each other. there is some who want to argue the small points like the moon, the name, etc. no biggie. one of the first thoughts i received was to find out His true name. i don’t see how you can read the scriptures with the no name of lord or god in your bible. i am glad Mike wrote this article. we are the few who are on this earth. i look at the great teachings on u tube that only get 200 views while the basketball mess got 6 million. i forgot to mention 119 ministries on u tube who freely put their time and money into getting out the Word. some here who mention the mosaic law might want to think of where Moses got these laws. common sense would tell us these are Yah’s laws that he wrote on tablets of stone with His own hand. so cool. Isaiah 66 tells us what will happen in the end times and it mentions pig eating. hmmmmmm? we can go back and forth, but Yahuah gives His light to whom He wants to. blessed be to those that are not blinded. may they be a light to the world. love you all!
And which of the old true ways do you follow Michael? Sabbath? Feasts? Tzitzit? Isn’t the NEW covenant where YHWH God writes these laws in us to fulfill His deep desire in Deu 5:29 “O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!”
Hmmm…. something to consider.
How many wives do you see: Jer 3:8 “And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.”
Wait YHWH God had TWO WIVES??!!!!
Lets see what YHWH God said to David:
2Sa 12:8 “And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.”
Wait YHWH God gave David a sinful thing?? And YHWH God would have given David more???
Is this the God you serve Michael? Is this the Bible you read?
So you agree with marrying your father?!
It’s an analogy for heavens sake!
an analogy, you are right Mirabolin. a teaching for us cause we are fleshly and look at things differently than the Father. He gives us many analogies. having children surely helps with self centered thinking, marriage shows us how two can be one, immersion shows us how we should put off the fleshly worldly thinking, the bread and wine shows us what the Messiah represents, His feast days are a shadow of things to come as our redemption plan. i love His teachings. legalistic? you bet! He knows no one can keep His law perfectly, so He gives His only Son. how beautiful. Yahuah and Yahushua are the biggest servants ever. we see and learn. peace.
I’ll ask again, whose early church are you talking about being influenced by Judaizers and Gnostics
I ask because Christianity was created after the 4th century CE, based on the letters attributed to the Roman trader Pharisee Saul/Paul. They are all by later 6th to 10th century Christians, they all describe 6th to 10th century Christianity.
The gospels are older than the Christian time line, and are pretty much Mithraism verbatim. As per the dated fragments of gospels found amongst the Dead Sea scrolls.
The explosion of Christian cults took place from 1’500 CE onwards. There is no trace of Christianity before Catholicism, nothing to distinguish Jesus followers from any one of the many cults based on Horus/Mithras/Dionysus. Mithra being the more predominant version in Rome with Dionysus in ancient Greece.
What are you basing your hypothesis on?
Also Judaism didn’t exist when Paul was alive. It was created after 70 CE from the political party called the Pharisees, after Rome wiped the Israelites off the face of Earth in 70 CE. Paul lived c5-c67 CE. Same as Jesus was not Jewish for the same reason. When you look at the things Jesus was preaching it was not Atenism, the monotheism invented by the Pharaoh Amenhotep c1’300 BCE, but polytheistic paganism, baptism the last supper are polytheistic pagan in origin, the Israelites were polytheistic, not monotheistic. The Pharisees policies and laws are based on the total oppression thought and belief intolerance of the monogodship or dictatorship rule invented by the Pharaoh Amenhotep, hence Pharisee, Pharisaic = based on Pharaoh.
The subsequent religions influenced by the Pharisees, are thus nothing but propaganda machines to keep the population subservient to their lord and master, pay your taxes like good little slaves and for rabble rousing in times of war, aka looting other countries for your lord and masters profit at your expense.
“The curse causeless shall not come”.
You are treading upon very thin ice, Pix.
HeaeAmI
““The curse causeless shall not come”.
You are treading upon very thin ice, Pix.”
Proverbs 26.2 misquoted “As the bird by wandering, as the swallow by flying, so the curse causeless shall not come.”
Very bad English translation, it amounts to making pointless curses. Ironically you then follow with a silly pointless threat.
And you posting a 7 year old girl on your article and attributing molestation to us, is just disgusting. It only shows your ability to twist the truth. At the very least you could of done, would be to post a picture of a fully developed woman. We never once mentioned girls, only developed women. It seems that your pride and self-righteousness has blinded you to the times of the past. By simply mentioning how things were of old, which is fact, you actually believe that we are ourselves are supporting child molestation. Please Michael, get a grip.
And for some strange reason you are stuck on 18, like that is a magical number. Now I realize that this magical number is man’s law, here in the U.S. anyway, so therefore I live by that law as well. But even as little as 40 years ago they were getting married at 16. Oh somehow we get more righteous the older that number grows. And I didn’t suggest anything. I merely made a statement of fact. That 2,000 years ago it was accepted. You see, no matter what man thinks, God declares a woman to be a woman when she is developed. And that does not have an age. As I said before Eve was 1 day old, did that make Adam a child molester? You are so quick to jump to conclusions, that you entirely miss the content of what is being said. And you did delete my comment that called you out on the carpet about all of this. It was way more detailed than this one and I wish I would of saved it, for all to see you for the fraud you are.
Interesting to note, most kids have experimented sexually on some level with their friends by age 13… As a young married woman, my then 16 yr old sister-in-law was and had been having orgies with her friends for 2 yrs… that was back in 1994, that age level has dropped drastically now.
My own brother, while spending the summer with his father, was dating a 25 yr old woman at the age of 14. He had lied to her about his age and by the time she realized he was only 14 and not 18, it was too late, she was pregnant…. kids are not as innocent or naive as many parents think. Of course, not all kids are the same, but just talk to some young adults, a few 18 yr olds and ask them… or at the very least, try to remember your own childhood, what your friends were doing when they were 13-17… as sad and as scary as it is for parents to know this truth.. sex happens far more than it is reported. Just because you or I waited until marriage and 18 yrs old, doesn’t mean that every kid does
There are still many states that allow 16 yr olds to marry w/parental consent. Do I condone molestation or pedophilia… ABSOLUTELY NOT, but even that doesn’t change that it still happens and it destroys lives. As a survivor myself, I understand the ramifications that come with it, the damage that it does to both victim and family. And as a survivor, through the strength of God, I have found true forgiveness for those that have hurt me and pray for their salvation often. People do stupid things all the time. Humanity puts a gage on sin, God does not… sin is sin, sin is lawlessness or simply put breaking God’s laws. It is my prayer that no one hears the Messiah speak these words “I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.”
If you follow God’s laws and commandments you’re a judaizer. If you don’t you’re a hypocrite.
Michael after reading through it all you fail to even use scripture to back up your claims, as everyone against you has backed up there’s using scripture. You think just because you say that you believe in Christ that somehow you’re saved automatically? If you truly were in Christ you’d follow His commandments, not use Him as a scapegoat.
Your article was shoddy at best. You twisted words around. We never defended child molesters, we actually showed you how it’s against torah. You seem to think that at age 18 poof the girl is a woman. It’s not up to your clock, it’s up to her biological clock. Being that we live in a society with laws we choose the moral route per society of 18. However in those days, 2000 years ago, 14 year olds were adults. Things were more serious than compared to now.
You sir are a hypocrite. The worst kind. The kind that turn people away from God because you work against His word. It’s not up to how you twist scripture, it’s up to the individual on how they interpret it. If we are all in Christ, are we not all brothers and sisters? Instead you want to yell out “witch! Witch!”.
I see much more people agreeing with this post than I do disagreeing with it. It takes someone mature in Christ to follow the laws and commandments and clearly you are just not ready for it. You claim you’ve studied the bible inside and out and to me it seems that you pick and choose verses that suit you.
Your maturity level is alarming, as you run your mouth and run off putting up a false article on beforeitsnews.com (which to me is a gag page).
You’re a false teacher, this much I know to be true, because I can see it. Judge me and think I’m a judaizer, which I’m not I assure you. I can see all sides of an argument and for me the “judaizers” argument makes way more sense than that of an ear tickling pastor.
This article is one sick JOKE!
Jeez, you also forgot to mention about Christian-ruled Vatican being involved in mass murdering/raping children – at /alternative/2014/03/ex-catholic-priest-says-vatican-is-satanic-coven-ratzinger-still-running-the-ship-now-from-behind-scenes-2927128.html , Priest Says Vatican Is Satanic Coven, Ratzinger Still Running The Ship Now From Behind Scenes, By Indian in the machine, March 27?!
Or those slave-holding days and GENOCIDE of millions, by Christians of Native Americans, Latin American Indigenous peoples, Africans, Aboriginal Australians, Canadian First Nation peoples etc!
Or what do you think of the increasing and barbaric Genocidal invasion by Christian-Zionist-ruled Israel/Western world, including with the most savage DRONES, of oil/gas-rich Muslim/’Third’ World such as in Palestine, Mali, Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, Central Republic Africa and so on (see how Al-Qaeda is created by Western-Zionist powers themselves – see http://www.globalresearch.ca/fighting-al-qaeda-by-supporting-al-qaeda-in-syria-the-obama-administration-is-a state-sponsor-of-terrorism/5339728, Fighting Al Qaeda by Supporting Al Qaeda in Syria: The Obama Administration is a “State Sponsor of Terrorism”, By Prof Michel Chossudovsky, Global Research, June 19, 2013?!
I just got blocked by this idiot who wrote this article, because I asked him to show me and everyone else what is was exactly that I said, that could possibly justify his accusations. He is not used to somebody calling him out on the carpet, like his loyal followers, which is nothing more than the blind leading the blind. Post the damned comment Michael that I made that justifies your accusations, for ALL to read. and quit lying to people about what it is that you think I said. Let everyone here decide for themselves if your accusations has any validity to them. Your pride and self-righteousness has you seeing only what you want to see, and not what was said. You are wolf in sheep’s clothing. And here is a link that shows that man’s philosophies change over time. I did not write this article, but merely pointed out that God and even man in the past viewed marriage as being when a girl reaches maturity and becomes a woman. And for simply making a comment of past historical facts, he somehow assigned this to HRM of which a month ago I never even heard of. If you want to put me in a box. Call it what it is. The Babylon falling box. http://www.nairaland.com/450419/age-marriage-medieval-times-paedophilia
You see what Steve Carr has put on here. This is what he and all his friends do to my Facebook page. The 600+ comments that my article came from is because they were doing this same thing on a status on my page. They follow me around when people comment and pester me. He This is why he was blocked, then they always say it is because I can’t answer them.
Steve Carr has a point, you insult other people and pretend you are the victim. If someone asks you to clarify, you either totally ignore or you take it they are challenging you to a duel. You are not acting like an adult but a spoiled brat.
Pix and Steve Carr, what a team. Birds of a feather…
You are still not answering points raised, just vilifying people who disagree with your personal interpretation.
I demand an apology and a retraction of this defamation of my character. Other wise you will be seeing me in court. Justify your claims by own words or shut up.
We follow you around Michael, because you are spewing lies and need to be exposed for that you are. What are you sorry that you can’t block us here as well. That is your fault. You started it. Now bring it on wolf.
See what I have to put up with on my personal Facebook page just because I leave it public . I post Bible devotions almost every day and I want the public to be able to see them.
Many of these guys have multiple divorces. Wonder why?
Because I came to Christ after my 2 divorces, what is so HARD to understand about that. But now I am devoted and married to Christ. Or would your silly self consider that to be gay. Hey why don’t you make a new article about my HBR association and how we support the gay, out of this comment as well.
Some of them might also be gay, they kind of have that look.
Figures, you WOULD be judgmental by someone’s looks. Why would I expect any different from you. And NO I don’t have sex out of wedlock, in case you want to ask.
Some of them are so mean because they are having white outs.
Why would that be funny?
I have never been divorced. My wife is the only woman I have ever had sex with. She’s even the only woman I have ever kissed. So much for what ever point you were trying to make….
1 John 2
1 (My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.) But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous One, 2 and he himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world.
Keeping God’s Commandments
3 Now by this we know that we have come to know God: if we keep his commandments. 4 The one who says “I have come to know God” and yet does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in such a person. 5 But whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has been perfected. By this we know that we are in him. 6 The one who says he resides in God ought himself to walk just as Jesus walked.
7 Dear friends, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have already heard. 8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining. 9 The one who says he is in the light but still hates his fellow Christian is still in the darkness. 10 The one who loves his fellow Christian resides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But the one who hates his fellow Christian is in the darkness, walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
For those who can comprehend this passage, you all can quickly see that those who DO NOT KEEP GOD’S COMMANDMENTS… they do not know God and even if they say they know God, the scripture clearly shows they do not and calls them our as a LIAR… not I, but the scriptures themselves.
SO for those who desire truth, allow me to explain what the word KEEP means. Keep is not the same as Obey. Keep DOES mean to “guard and protect” the integrity of God’s commands. How to we do this? Much like in our homes, we have Instructions for our children. As parents, we do not OBEY the same instructions given to our children, but we DO KEEP those instructions by guarding and protecting the integrity of the Instruction given to our child by teaching and continually reminding them of the instruction, that it is in place for their own good.
As an example: DO NOT TOUCH THE STOVE is a house rule in most homes for little children.
Why? because little kids like to touch everything and if they touch a lit stove, they will get hurt. Now, even as parents, we have consequences of break the house rules… a punishment is given… time out chairs, no cartoons, etc.. (whatever your house rules may be)
NOW, let’s apply this reasoning to God’s laws:
I’ll use one of the laws that God gave in the 10 commandments and to Moses, commonly misunderstand as Moses’ laws, when in fact they were all given by GOD, making them ALL God’s laws:
Matthew 15:4
For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Whoever insults his father or mother must be put to death.’
As you see, Yahushua (Jesus) reiterated His Father’s instruction in Matthew, both the command and the consequence of breaking it. The command is:
Exodus 20
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that you may live a long time in the land the Lord your God is giving to you.
the consequence is:
Exodus 21:17
“Whoever treats his father or his mother disgracefully must surely be put to death.
SOUNDS HARSH… but as you see, the command is to HONOR your parents and it comes with a blessing if you do as God asked, but if you do not, there are consequences.
“Stoning is horrible, I could never stone my child” … this part of the law was a last resort, it had to go through God’s ordained procedure as well… though still a consequence of breaking God’s laws… as Paul referenced them Laws of Sin and Death, this is what Yahushua Ha Mashiach freed us from by giving a grace to repent of our sin (defined as lawlessness in scripture)… As the Messiah said:
Matthew 5:16-18
(NET)
16 In the same way, let your light shine before people, so that they can see your good deeds and give honor to your Father in heaven.
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place.
NOT UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY… will anything written in the law will pass either… heaven and earth have not ever passed away… not all the prophecies concerning Yahushua (Jesus) have been fulfilled, He is STILL coming back to fulfill the prophecies concerning His second coming.
SO what does FULFILL mean: Pleroo or fulfill means to make known the TRUE PURPOSE of the law, which is the Will of God that we obey His commands, and the prophecies that were given about the Messiah, His 1st coming and His 2nd coming… we’re still awaiting fulfillment of the 2nd coming.
DID YAHUSHUA (Jesus) obey ALL of YHWH’s laws? No
Did Yahushua KEEP all YHWH’s laws? YES
Common sense tells us that the Messiah cannot keep the laws of His Father that are meant for women only. He was male and it’s obvious that a law for woman’s bodies were not meant for Him. However, Yahushua DID KEEP His Father’s laws by preaching to the people and His disciples to “observe and do” all the the Pharisees and scribes taught from the Mosaic laws (Matthew 23:1-3… God’s laws, known as Torah. These are YWHW our God’s instructions to us, they are His will for us, they protect us from harm when we hear His Voice and obey the Word of God.
Yahushua’s problem with the Pharisees wasn’t what they taught from scripture (“OLD” Testament), it WAS that they added their own man-made laws to God’s instructions and they were not even keep God’s laws, they were not practising what they preached.
May YHWH Bless all those who read this, all those who are seeking the truth and understand that we are all students of the Most High God, continuing to seek God’s will always and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide, teach, convict and correct our steps as we go… Let the Word of YHWH our God remain as TRUTH and every man a liar who speaks against the Word. In Yahushua’s name, Your Will be done YHWH!
What is so sad, is that Jews still think they are God’s chosen people. Their house has been abandoned!
Jews, as in the tribe of Judah, will be found in Heaven… Jews are still apart of God’s chosen people, which is not ONLY those of the tribe of Judah, but the WHOLE HOUSE of Israel… unless you are grafted into one of those tribes, you will not enter into New Jerusalem… as all 12 gates in Heaven are the 12 tribes of Israel… this is spoken in Revelation 21
19 For since I am free from all I can make myself a slave to all, in order to gain even more people. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew to gain the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law) to gain those under the law. 21 To those free from the law I became like one free from the law (though I am not free from God’s law but under the law of Christ) to gain those free from the law. 22 To the weak I became weak in order to gain the weak. I have become all things to all people, so that by all means I may save some.
23 I do all these things because of the gospel, so that I can be a participant in it.
~The name on those gates is found in chapter 7, they are as followed:
4 And I heard how many were marked with the seal of God—144,000 were sealed from all the tribes of Israel:
5 from Judah 12,000
from Reuben 12,000
from Gad 12,000
6 from Asher 12,000
from Naphtali 12,000
from Manasseh 12,000
7 from Simeon 12,000
from Levi 12,000
from Issachar 12,000
8 from Zebulun 12,000
from Joseph 12,000
from Benjamin 12,000
~Everyone will walk through one of these gates, so either we are apart of the 12 tribes, which include Judah (Jews) or we will not walk into the New Jerusalem…. God has not abandoned them, this is why we are see so many going back to what God teaches because mere men have spoken in err… as Yahushua (Jesus) said and it still rings true today for so many:
Matthew 22:29
29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.
~The Scriptures Yahushua (Jesus) is referring to IS the Old Testament, the New Testament had not be written at this time… and how very true He is, so many misunderstand what is in the New Testament because they have been wrongly taught the the Old Testament does not apply, yet even the Messiah, Himself, attest to the fact that INDEED these Scriptures are still necessary and valid, “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,”
It is better to obey God than to trust man and disobey God… this is how we show our love to God, this is how we show our faith and trust in His wisdom, His ways, His instructions.
So many do not understand that it was the Word (Yahushua/Jesus) that gave ALL the commands to Moses on Mt Sinai… remember, Moses spoke to God and received all the Instructions of God by God, he seen God face to face… no one has seen the Father, except for the Son… it was the Son, the Word made flesh that Moses spake with every time he spoke and saw God face to face… even Abraham ate with the Word made flesh just moments before Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed… we can see exactly how Yahushua (Jesus) has been from the beginning:
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Since I cannot edit the above post… pardon the error above,
That is not Revelation 21… that is 1 Corinthians 9.
Here is Revelation 21
Revelation 21:9-14
The New Jerusalem
9 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed— 13 on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
hi yahs child, something i noticed the other day that you might like to know. the tribe of Dan is not in the 144,000. neither is Ephrayim mentioned. Jacob blessed Ephrayim over Manasseh. interesting, right? i don’t know what it means. take care.
Anonymous:
I caught that too.
It is interesting… Ephrayim and Manasseh: I often wonder that though Ephrayim was blessed over Manasseh, if Manasseh wouldn’t still receive some 1st born privileges… hence why the gate carries his name only.
As per Dan… It could be the idolatry that was rampant in the tribe of Dan when they were in rebellion to YHWH.
In Judges 18, we see the tribe of Dan mentioned as having no inheritance among the tribes of Israel, so they sought land for themselves… we also see their idolatry in this chapter as well… I have heard, but have not seen in scripture (yet) that the whole tribe of Dan was wiped out, if this be true… that would definitely explain why they have no gate.
Let me explain the brunt of this debate and how exactly it has developed to this level of contention. It all started when I was trying to defend God’s law in one of Michael’s threads. While posting scripture and using common sense to establish my side of the debate, I was attacked and called names like legalist, Judaizer, and accused of belonging to some movement called the Hebrew Roots Movements. Of which I repeatedly told them, that I did not belong and that I only heard of that movement about a month ago myself. To the people I was debating, it was more important to put me in a box rather than to hear the message that God himself put on my heart. I humbly and respectively did this without ever criticizing or calling them names. However, there was a point where their self-righteousness started showing through. I simply pointed out that man’s philosophy does not make one righteous and that the churches of today are actually honoring God with their lips and not their hearts. That God’s Sabbath and Feasts have all been supplanted by Satan’s counterfeit. As everyone knows that Christmas was originally a Pagan festival called Mithras and that the name Easter came from the sun goddess Ishtar. That eggs & rabbits are symbols of fertility and sex. Something of which all sun worshippers have been observing for 4,000 years. I pointed out that the Sabbath was changed by man. These are all well-known historical FACTS. This is what started the discussion of what makes one righteous and how we obtain this righteousness.
Mt 15 08 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.
Mt 15 09 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
Evidently Michael believes that being a good person, leading a good life, never stumbling makes him a righteous person. Now somehow or another this lead to the age of a woman. While man’s law defines that as 18, of which I totally agree and obey, I simply pointed out that God himself doesn’t view age. And I asked him what was so magical about the age of 18 and that is was man & not God that set this age. Anybody with a Bible and a history book can discover for themselves that the age accepted by society in the past for the definition of a woman was much younger than today. God defines a woman as being developed and because it is He that sets the woman’s menstrual cycle, it must be He that declares her to be a woman. And for this, I get accused of supporting pedophilia. Michael cannot understand that the things of today haven’t always been this way. And that ALL things have their place of origin. And that origin has everything to do with truth or deception. I continually ask Michael to post the comments that justify his claims about me. But he can’t because that would show everybody his inability to comprehend what is actually being said. And this is a very heavy judgmental and false accusation made by a man that professes to be Godly. I pray for you Michael that God will humble you and open your eyes to the mistake that you have done by posting this article. I will admit that at first I was very agitated with you for this error of yours. But while in prayer last night, I was told that “He knows not what he does” and that it is not flesh and blood that we wrestle with here, but he principality of darkness in high place. Since then, I have had peace with this issue, and can even say to you Michael that I forgive you, from a brother in Christ.
Steve Carr,
I do not know of you and will not get in to this with Clinton but I wanted to tell you I agree with your first paragraph. I have placed articles on BIN showing this is exactly what God’s Word says.
I have not read others of your are anyone Else’s comments on the article of mike’s and don’t intend to, I just opened to yours from the front comment section.
Word of advice, Mike responds to logic like a cat to a pool of water, and to the truth of scripture as the same but even worse, do not think this man can be shown the light of truth. Mike hates the Holy Perfect Law of God, to him it is a burden that God placed upon man to make his life miserable.
Believers in Jesus/Yeshua are not under the law, but under grace:
“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
— Romans 6:14
“I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”
— Galatians 2:21
While it is true that the Law of Moses was made obsolete when Jesus was nailed to the cross and died for the sins of mankind (see Hebrews 8:13), the Law will not be done away with until this present earth and heaven disappear. Jesus came to fulfill the Law, which remains intact for this present heaven and earth (see Matthew 5:17-18). Then when the Alpha and Omega creates the new heavens and the new earth (see Revelation 21:5), the obsolete Law of Moses will be done away with permanently and the new eternal order of things, the age to come, will apply as spoken of by the Book of Revelation, the Book of Ezekiel, and other books in the Bible. However, for those who belong to the High Priest Jesus, who is in the order of Melchizedek (see Hebrews 5:6), we can partake now, by faith, of the eternal things to come, of the age to come. We can enter into the Most Holy of Holies in heaven via the blood of the Jesus. We are free now from the Law of Moses as we can now partake of the age to come by faith. That freedom however, does not give one a license to sin. That would be insulting the Spirit of grace.
Unless you believe in keeping the ten commandments you are not a Christian and you will go to hell. Read Acts chapter 15. And many other passages of Paul’s writings.
We are not saved by works (obeying the law). We are saved by grace, it is a free gift.
“But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.”
—Acts 15:11
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God”
— Ephesians 2:8
If it were our works that would be true, and we could boast of them as Mike does. but because they are His works within us, that is what makes us justified and because of this we cannot boast of ourselves, but of the Glory of God that is within us.
“because they are His works within us, that is what makes us justified”
Got Scripture for that?
This declares who is justified
Rom 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
This is real clear
Mt 19:17 if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
This is how you walk after the Spirit to be within you
Rom 8:4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Here is the mind of the Spirit within us
Rom 8:6 For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace:
This how you get purified in Him
Tit 2: 14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a people for his own possession, zealous of good works.
Here is how we know that we know Him
1John 2:3 And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
Here is how we know what sin is
1John 3:04 Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
Here is how we receive of Him
1John 3:22 and whatsoever we ask we receive of him, because we keep his commandments and do the things that are pleasing in his sight.
Here is how we know that we abide in Him and more importantly Him in us
1John 3:24 And he that keeps his commandments abideth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he gave us.
Here we see what REAL love is.
1John 5:2 Hereby we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and do his commandments.
Here we see what God’s love is
1John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Here we see what walking in TRUTH is
2John 1:4 I rejoice greatly that I have found certain of thy children walking in truth, even as we received commandment from the Father.
Again the definition of love, that has been given from the times of old.
2John 1:6 And this is love, that we should walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, even as ye heard from the beginning, that ye should walk in it.
Here is how His love ^^^ is perfected in us. and that He abides in us
1John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time: if we love one another, God abideth in us, and his love is perfected in us:
Here is the Spirit bearing witness to my spirit.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God:
Here is my spirit one with the Lords
1Cor 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
Don’t you know if He is in you or not. Evidently not, if you even had to ask this question
2Cor 13:5 Try your own selves, whether ye are in the faith; prove your own selves. Or know ye not as to your own selves, that Yahshua Christ is in you?
Learn the ways of Christ and let Him form in you
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you–
And once He is formed in you, you have no need of the law, for it is Him that keeps it when we die to our sins.
Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness, self-control; against such there is no law.
Which now becomes His body that fills us
Eph 1:23 which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.
Again I am one spirit with Christ unto the Father
Eph 2:18 for through him we both have our access in one Spirit unto the Father.
He is calling you now into His body
Eph 4:4-5 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as also ye were called in one hope of your calling; because we are members of his body.
Salvation is at hand by His Spirit
Php 1:19 For I know that this shall turn out to my salvation, through your supplication and the supply of the Spirit of Yahshua Christ,
Forget your own self-righteousness, allow Him to regenerate your heart & renew your spirit.
Tit 3:5 not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
Repent
Turn from your ways
To Yahweh’s
You are telling me to repent, yet I have already been cleansed by the blood of my Savior and Lord Jesus Christ. It is He who sanctifies me, or makes me holy:
“For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren”
—Hebrews 2:11
I am made holy by my faith in Him, it is a free gift from the Father. Yet, you want me to repent of this and turn to the law to be saved? No way. Just like in Acts, you want to put believers under the yoke of the law, which no one can bear and makes no one holy. Peter settled this question by saying we are saved by grace:
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
—Act 15: 1-12
You asked for scripture, now you deny it. If you don’t have ears to ear, or eyes to see. Ask the Lord and He faithful to oblige. Evidently your righteousness is beyond repentance. Good luck with that.
I understand Paul very well, as most misunderstand what he is saying. Paul’s writings were even difficult for the Apostles to understand, and only through the Spirit of Christ that they did. That is why 2 Peter 3 says 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation–as also our beloved brother PAUL, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in ALL HIS EPISTLES, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things HARD TO UNDERSTAND, which UNTAUGHT and unstable PEOPLE TWIST to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, BEWARE UNLESS YOU ALSO FALL from your own steadfastness, BEING LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
YOU CAN NOT LOVE GOD AND DESPISE HIS LAWS.
You said:
“You asked for scripture, now you deny it.”
No, you didn’t provide any Scriptures showing that it is, as you claimed, “His works within us” that we are justified.
You also said:
“YOU CAN NOT LOVE GOD AND DESPISE HIS LAWS.”
I do not despise His laws at all. I just am not under the law, but under grace:
“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
— Romans 6:14
You can choose the law or you can choose grace. I choose grace.
I understand Paul very well, as most misunderstand what he is saying. Paul’s writings were even difficult for the Apostles to understand, and only through the Spirit of Christ that they did. That is why 2 Peter 3 says 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation–as also our beloved brother PAUL, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in ALL HIS EPISTLES, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things HARD TO UNDERSTAND, which UNTAUGHT and unstable PEOPLE TWIST to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, BEING LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Lets see, should we follow the broad road that the majority are on, or the narrow one that Christ shines His light on. If one is in the majority, that sounds like the bigger road to me.
“I understand Paul very well”
Not well enough to know Paul’s message of grace.
And to better understand Paul’s writings, we need to understand the dilemma that he was in. He had formed a body of believers that never even heard of God’s law. And he was right to not put a teaching on them that requires time to absorb. Yet the Jews didn’t see it this way. They were of the mindset that one must obey the law BEFORE coming Christ. Where Paul rightfully so said NO, that is putting the cart in front of the horse. And Paul stated that faith comes first, then we can educate them. So the Jews gave the Gentiles a bare minimum to come out of their old Pagan worship practices. But we read later on that they were instructed in the law, by reading from the seat of Moses every Sabbath. It was only by the Spirit that the Jews were able to understand Paul and the priority of our worship. And they even took note of this in 2 Peter 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation–as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Yes by grace we are forgiven and called out of the world. But that is only the gate to the narrow path. And by faith, we accept His grace. So that the learning process can begin. And God blesses us with increased knowledge in His word the more we repent, humble ourselves, and study His word. He peels back the layers of the onion that are hidden treasures in His word. He can only take you as far, as you are willing to submit and surrender your will to His. Most people get stuck at the gate of grace and this is the broad path.
If only truth was a Democracy. Lets see, should we follow the broad road that the majority are on, or the narrow one that Christ shines His light on. If one is in the majority, that sounds like the bigger road to me.
Once you begin to understand this and the writings of Paul, The Bible becomes a lot less contradictory.
Michael
…I feel compelled to add some comments here regarding this subject. One thing is sure we all tend to over complicate things without realizing it. With regard to this Hebrew Roots Movement (HRM) we see another example of that same over complicating attitude.
… There are so many “movements” in the world that call themselves “Christian” it is no wonder the unbelieving world is confused and quick to point the finger and yell hypocrite! Can we blame them? I won’t go on and on about this subject since I am of the habit of being quick and to the point.
…The HRM as well as all other movements that focus on works, for example the prosperity teachers, the teachers who focus on the power that Christ has given you (you know ..just claim it and it will be done!), Groups like the Way international as well as the Gnostics and Judaizers and on and on ad nauseam all have the same roots…Legalism.
…It all seems confusing until you strip away all the variations and special topics of focus or as you had coined it as “hobby”. It is all nothing more than Legalism. The next point I would like to bring up is Why so much legalism?? The only answer I see is founded on the lack of proper understanding about what salvation is …. how it is accomplished … and how it is applied.
… We have so churches that miss the important fact that salvation is a totally God centered act. It has nothing to do with coming to faith in Him and then spending the rest of our lives trying to prove our worthiness. It also has nothing to do with waking up one day and realizing “Hey I just figured this whole God thing out I want to follow Jesus!”
…The Lord is the one who wakes us up (by performing spiritual CPR on dead sinners), cleans us up and lifts us up (or adopts us). We are totally accepted, adopted and grafted in to the family we don’t need to live by a system that adds anything to that. The best way to show our gratitude to Jesus for what He has done is to live a life that exemplifies His love and our certainty that we our God’s possession.
.. These Legalist movements remind me of Abraham’s response to God’s promise of a child. Taking measures into his own hands he and his wife agreed to “help God out” by having a child with Sarah’s hand maid. What a mess!
Well I think Christians are not meant to be bound under the Abrahamic covenant or Mosaid law. If there any core to the ten commandments it is in the Noahide laws where non-abrahamic are clearly distinguished from the ancestors Abrahamic people (who wants to be a semitic muslim because that is what will become of those who are following the HRM – not Jews, just increasingly enraged and self mutilating because of their Semitic – Anti-Semitic self abuse).
And gnosticism has the same root as knowledge and gender I think. So the Biblical sense of man and women ‘knowing’ each other is the different genders gene mixing. This seems undeniably the idea behind gnosis.
Self mutilating Semitic – Anti-Semitic self abuse and rejection of Noahide non-abrahamic / mosaic traditions would be the opposite of this as it is rejecting the social pagan roots of Christianity (after all indo-europeans like Zoroastrians were monotheist too).
Jesus the Christ represents the Universal Christ that is each one of us. We each have a I AM Presence and Holy Christ Self and our soul is the bride of Christ which in time marries the Christ and makes its Ascension. The Path that Jesus walked (14 stations of the Cross) we must also walk and pass our initiations. We need to understand the process of Karma and Reincarnation which Jesus understood and taught to his inner disciples (Mystical or Gnostic teachings).
Mike, you never listed any comments made by me in order for you to justify your false accusations. I posted the link to your page for all to read for their selves. And since you have deleted that post. What is the matter, are you afraid that these people will see you for the fraud that you are?
Again Steve Carr you are wrong as you most always are. The article is still on my page which has a link at the bottom of my article that has always been there. Evidently you messed up the link somehow. Probably because you posted it and you are blocked so no one can see it unless the go directly to my page. I can’t even use the link. Man am I glad to be shed of you on Facebook. You are an arrogant pest but you will go on thinking that people avoid you because you are so smart.
If you are a novice Christian, do not be misled by those who wish to put you under the law, for we are saved by grace:
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
— Acts 15:11
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;
— Ephesians 2:5
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
— Ephesians 2:8
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
—2 Timothy 1:9
If people are saved by works and obeying the law, the cross on the thief could not have been saved. But the reality is, he believed in Jesus and so he was saved.
“And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house”
— Acts 16:31
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
— Romans 10:9
Nobody has ever stated that we are saved by works. I absolutely know this. The law is the fruit of our salvation, not the root of our salvation.
I used to be a “Jesus Freak” for years. I was radically on fire for Jesus. Before this, I was a dedicated Catholic for 35 years. I would not be where I am today without studying history, and not just believing what Pastors and Priests had taught me for years.
I left the Catholic Church in 1987. It was not until a couple of years ago that everything changed. When I learned that the Catholic Church said they were the ones that changed the Sabbath to Sunday and going so far as offering money to disprove them, using only the Bible.My eyes were open to the Truth about the True Sabbath. This is the Video that opened my eyes to Truth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw_0U2BoB8Y&list=PL9B915F8BA9A9A405
I then begin to ask myself what else I had been lied to about. The more I study, the more scarier it becomes for Christians. Please think about this. The Church Fathers were all Anti-Semitic. They wanted to have nothing to do with Hebrews or the Hebrew Language.
Please think about this. If I told you I wanted to translate something into Spanish but had no desire to learn anything of the Spanish Language or Culture, how accurate do you think my translation would be? That my friends is what your Bibles are like.
I just received this from a friend of mine and thought it brought up excellent points to get one to think for themselves:
Dennis Treacy: I was debating an irrational Christian who quoted this verse as proof the Torah is annulled pointing to the the word fulfill. I asked if he understood the first sentence clearly states “I have not come to destroy”. Asking if claiming the Torah is annulled is the same as destroying? The irrational answer was; “It doesn’t matter if they were annulled or destroyed because they were fulfilled”. If you promised at the time of your marriage to be faithful forever to your spouse, and then fulfilled this promise for 50 years, would you be annulling the vow in keeping the promise to your spouse? Would fulfilling your promise now allow you to be unfaithful? The answer was, “No matter what you say the Torah no longer has a hold on us because it was nailed to the cross!” Ok, have a nice day I’ll just stand here and bang my head against the wall. Please check out this website. It is one of my favorites: Dennis Treacy: I was debating an irrational Christian who quoted this verse as proof the Torah is annulled pointing to the the word fulfill. I asked if he understood the first sentence clearly states “I have not come to destroy”. Asking if claiming the Torah is annulled is the same as destroying? The irrational answer was; “It doesn’t matter if they were annulled or destroyed because they were fulfilled”. If you promised at the time of your marriage to be faithful forever to your spouse, and then fulfilled this promise for 50 years, would you be annulling the vow in keeping the promise to your spouse? Would fulfilling your promise now allow you to be unfaithful? The answer was, “No matter what you say the Torah no longer has a hold on us because it was nailed to the cross!” Ok, have a nice day I’ll just stand here and bang my head against the wall.
To all my Christian Friends. Please consider the information on this site and you will understand why I believe the way I do now.
http://www.blessyahowah.com/
I do not identify with Christianity, Judaism, or Messianic Judaism. I am a follower of Yah and His Scriptures (Not”Bible” which is a pagan term. Search for the root of that word). Christians like to put people who do not believe as they do into a box. Sorry, I do not fit into any box.
God hates religion, no matter what kind of package it is wrapped in: Christianity, Judaism or Messianic Judaism. He is all about a familial Covenant. He is about a relationship, not according to man’s ways, but according to His Terms and Conditions. Here is the true Hebrew understanding of Torah, and what the Hebrew Letters really mean: Psalm 19:7
Yahowah’s () Torah (torah – teaching, guidance, direction, and instruction) is complete and entirely perfect (tamym – without defect, lacking nothing, correct, genuine, right, helpful, beneficial, and true), returning and restoring (suwb – transforming) the soul (nepesh – consciousness). Yahowah’s testimony (‘eduwth – restoring and eternal witness) is trustworthy and reliable (‘aman – verifiable, confirming, supportive, and establishing), making understanding and obtaining wisdom (hakam – educating and enlightening oneself to the point of comprehension) simple for the open-minded and receptive (pethy – easy for those who are receptive).
i am anon who posted before and agreed with you. i clicked on all your u tube and website teachings and i thank you for sharing the good Word. it is Sabbath and i needed something to watch while i rest. happy 7th day Sabbath of our Creator. take care, peace.
So Michael, AGAIN I say to you: Lets do a video debate and let everyone decide for themselves. Are you worried you wont win it? Is that why you’re are avoiding it?
These things simply are not true. If the author even follows the Ten Commandments, how about not giving false testimony? There may be some small cultish groups out there, but by and large, there are many Torah keeping believers in Messiah Jesus/Yeshua. There is no command to require multiple wives so to say this is Torah, is false as well.
Deut 13 says if you are a prophet or dreamer of dreams and you lead YHVH’s people away from Torah, you are a false prophet. Why would the Creator send a Savior who taught against Torah if He told the people that is a sign of a false prophet? Yeshua kept Torah perfectly, He was the Word in flesh per John 1. Is our God a man that he should lie? Who is the author of confusion??? Deut 13 seems very clear until you try to add man made doctrine and traditions in there. “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men…making the Word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.” Matt 7:1-13.Yeshua spoke against the Oral Law/Talmud, NOT the Torah/Word of God. Christianity needs to repent and the Torah keepers are doing that. Read your Bible and sincerely ask YHVH for the truth, He will give it to you, but do you have ears to hear it? Or keep telling lies like the Palestinians who claim Jews drink blood, etc. And find yourself in the company of Martin Luther and his prized student, Hitler as well, who have joined the dragon in making war against those who KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND have the faith of Yeshua Messiah (Rev 12:17) for centuries of persecution as true Biblical prophecy has predicted.