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Is the USA Preparing For Mass Death and Widespread Hysteria? After This Disturbing Discovery, It Certainly Looks That Way–Watch This! (Video and Photos)
WNYT News 13′s Mark Mulholland and his cameraman had a few rather interesting encounters with overly aggressive State correctional officers while trying to do a story on a historic monument, Grant’s Cottage, which is located at the top of Mount McGregor.
During the encounters, which were all caught on video, the crew was repeatedly asked to stop filming what appeared to be a closed prison facility in the backdrop. “You are on State property right now. You can’t film here.”, said the officer after pulling up to the news crew on a public roadway in an aggressive manner with his unmarked vehicle. “You are going to leave the mountain now.”, the officer continued, insinuating that the news crew was on the mountain for a “different reason”.
After the conflict, the correctional officer, identified only as “Lieutenant Dorn”, radioed to his co-worker to block the roadway with another vehicle as the crew tried to enter the historic monument where the supposed “closed” prison facility. —21st Centure Wire News
Is the USA Preparing For Mass Death and Hysteria? It Certainly Looks That Way!
So why did they need to shut down this prison like they did? Apparently, there was argument that it did not need to be shut down. Here is an excerpt from TimesUnion.Com:
Mt. McGregor is one of three medium-security prisons whose doors will be shut on July 26, 2014. Chateaugay in Franklin County and Butler in Wayne County are the others. The fourth prison is Monterey Shock, a minimum-security facility in Schuyler County. According to the state Department of Corrections and Community Supervision, the plan calls for employees to be transferred to other facilities in their vicinity or into civil service jobs with other agencies. Five correctional facilities are within about an hour and a half of Mt. McGregor.
The New York State Correctional Officers and Police Benevolent Association lambasted the decision, saying that the state’s statistics showing there are empty beds are a product of double-bunking of inmates in already crowded prisons. “After spending the summer campaigning in upstate New York to demonstrate how much progress the economy has made, the governor is choosing to quietly announce on a Friday that he is going to put almost 700 upstate New Yorkers out of work in one year,” union PresidentDonn Rowe said in a news release.
Were they in a hurry because they needed it for some other ‘Very Important Use’ such as a FEMA camp? Apparently, their statistics which caused them to make the decision weren’t entirely correct, according to the Correctional Officers and Police Benevolent Association. I think, if it is indeed a FEMA camp as suspected, the fact that they moved quickly means something BIG is about to happen! With Ebola, ISIS, and constant discussions of Martial Law and the economic crash, I would not be surprised!
West against East, Obama against Putin, NATO against new restored Warsaw pact.
Nothing new under the sun, or what? It’s important to understand the signs of our time.
- God created the world in six days, the seventh He rested.
- Enoch was raptured and Noah saved by tribulation.
- Hebrews return to Israel.
- Israel soon 70 years.
- Plagues, the fourth seal
- Bloodmoons, the sixth seal.
http://wp.me/p3tGFm-aq
- The Temple in Jerusalem.
- Conflict East against West.
- World divides into 10 regions.
- Mark of the Beast –> spiritual death?
- The last Pope (St. Malachy prophecy).
- Chrislam is moving on.
God did’t create anything. if he/or she had, we’d all be praising the same god and speaking the same language… All religions are cults.. you must be one of the ring leaders. Why is it that God loving lunatics praise this god and yet nobody had ever met this god and told about it. is your god the king of hide and seek? why does god need other people to spread the word about god when the omnipotent one could just drop in and introduce thyself..
bozo,
tired. so is this article which is based on info floating the net for over a year.
stop stealing other folks work Liarz and do some original pieces
you seem to have skipped a seal. Bloodmoons are the sixth seal? I must have misread that part
This story is over 2 years old. Tell us something new !!!!!
Hello Lyn,
If you want to be taken seriously, you have to change the photo at the beginning of this piece. It’s a great look if you were doing cheesecake or auditioning as a cheerleader, but it’s not particularly suitable for a supposed serious researcher – must be an American thing . . .
Seems trivial to get on Lyn about her photo. I’m not her biggest fan, and i razz her once in awhile, but the photo is like the last thing i think about…usually i get a laugh out of the headline adjectives, but the photo, really? Must be tough living life focusing all of your attention on semantics, rather than more important things, you know, like the substance of the article? It’s just a picture. lol
Yeah……If she were working for the Washington Post I would expect a more professional picture.
The ‘Come hither look’ doesn’t reconcile with the Hell Fire and Brimstone content of her contributions, so it tends to lend an air of disingenuousness to her Highness, making her articles hard on the needle in most Christians hypocrite meter.
But working at BIN she can get away with posing in her flannel P.J.s….so I guess her next pic will be in lingerie.
In my humble opinion, i just don’t think it’s that bad.
I’ve seen her videos, she’s a pretty lady, one can’t deny that. Mind you, i have no fascination for her; The pouty lips and bedroom eyes are kinda funny, especially when you’re watching someone try to educate people on Christianity. But what do i know? lol
The picture? well, as you know, i’m Agnostic, so i’m obviously not seeing this through Christian eyes, i suppose? But i see your point.
From a worldly stand point….they say any publicity is good publicity.
As a Christian, I am taught in scripture to not judge outward appearance. John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Her teachings on the other hand… I am called to judge doctrine. Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Many of her teachings are not scriptural, and is primarily based in carnal perceptions. She needs to seriously study the bible, and not be a teacher. Not until she is a lot more grounded in the word of God. She has very poor discernment, and is promoting senationalism, instead of rational and sound bible eschatology.
NKJV) Matthew 5:28 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart
Now I don’t know about you….But I’ve read many “lustful” comments posted by various men on these boards.
As well versed as you seem to be…I would have thought you had noticed that already.
It is my opinion that if you lead one to lust by dress or actions then you are culpable for the sin of lust and leading into the sin. And my statements were not a judgement of her, rather an explanation as to why some have a problem with her picture.
Also…I don’t believe that one Can just righteously, or judge Doctrine as shown in the following verse.
James 4:11-12
11Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
Sorry Real Deal,
if she puts the Creator of Heaven and Earth in her mouth, she better change her picture. HE is holy.
fear porn princess
very interesting article, I greet
http://naszkraj.info
EBOLA – The Depopulation Tool We Treat Like a Joke
/conspiracy-theories/2014/11/ebola-the-depopulation-tool-we-treat-like-a-joke-2466208.html
Antichrist 2016-2019: Mystery Babylon, Barack Obama & the Islamic Caliphate
http://www.amazon.com/Antichrist-2016-2019-Mystery-Babylon-Caliphate/dp/1501025392
Your date setting is not biblical, nor is Obama the Antichrist. Your false doctrine will only do harm. You seriously need to study better, and repent.
In regards to the map of the FEMA camps. In revelation it is said that a beast emerges with 7 heads, and upon its horns rest ten crowns. These ten crowns represent ten kings that have not yet come to power. Could there be a connection here?
The military gets everyone scared so they can pretend to defend us when all they do is rape and http://theusmarinesrape.com/FaceBook.html
ichabodcrane,
compared to the politicians of this world and that includes America, the US military in all branches are Saints!!! And by a very large margin.
I would rather be protected by our “Men” then any other branch of Government.
If its closed, then why are there people on a closed off basketball court? Kind of strange.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wilton,+NY+12831/@43.2022896,-73.7456251,166m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x89de33897b07c277:0xe9c29cc3bef60d99
Nevermind, the picture was probably taken before it closed on July 26, 2014. Disregard my comment above!
This post is for CrowPie. “Also…I don’t believe that one Can just righteously, or judge Doctrine as shown in the following verse.”
2 Timothy 3:15-18 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 4:1-4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Romans 16:17-18 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
2 John 1:8-11 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Your comment CrowPie, is dangerously ignorant, and is EXACTLY WHY there is SO MUCH HERESY.
Bingo
Part of the problem here are the concepts being ‘washed out’ in translation.
By all means, we are to JUDGE.
But we have been sternly and repeatedly cautioned against CONDEMNING. He who looks for mercy better have mercy for his brethren — especially those who believe.
“Condemn not, lest ye be condemned…” Is the way I believe the verse should read in English. The concordances and lexicons provide more than ample room for such a rendering.
I agree with your JUDGE and CONDEMING points of view you have shared here brother BEEF, and I also agree with Andoron on what he says about Mag excuse me CrowPie, being dangerously ignorant, for she knows not how counterproductive to the kingdom of God her misappropriation and misrepresentation and mismanagement of Biblical beliefs is!
But hey, who am I to judge?
After years of attending a college that was affiliated with my church…and hundreds of hours in college level bible courses……..I am familiar with your arguments. You may type until your fingers fall off……I used to believe just as you do….I used to teach the same arguments you make…….
enlightenment showed me the error of my ways. It is my responsibility to recognize, point out and teach better……on the subject of sin. This in a nutshell is discernment. It is NOT, however, my job to punish, scorn, belittle or otherwise cause ill treatment to a sinner.
I am a child of God. We are all Gods children it is not my place to punish……only to point a better way….to my brothers and sister.
There is a difference.
Judgement…….which is the measurement of an action…..can only be performed by one who can read the heart.
Condemnation…..well……your seem to be pretty good at that……I shouldn’t have to explain it.
@ CrowPie who said…
“After years of attending a college that was affiliated with my church…and hundreds of hours in college level bible courses”
… who is the preacher/teacher now? Funny how often folk accuse others of their own transgressions. It’s the pot and kettle concept in the ‘common language usage’.
I have a welding ticket, a love for The Word and an attitude period.
BTW… Andoron….I noticed you called me ignorant of the bible. Yet you noticeably started a new thread that excluded my admonishment of your giving the contributor a pass on her style of dress….which started this whole conversation.
I’ll copy and paste it here to remind you….since you never responded to my comment.
“” Matthew 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart
Now I don’t know about you….But I’ve read many “lustful” comments posted by various men on these boards.
As well versed as you seem to be…I would have thought you had noticed that already.”"
Why, BEEF JERKY, you think that the words got’washed out in the translations”!!
So, you know and are fluent in ancient tongues that are DEAD, like Latin, for instance???
Here, translate this!
Cave hoc “in carne daemone” bubulae jerky nomine!
Nam in ipsis verbis Lectorem potest furor.
Mali etiam rogo te nummos bubulae jerky.
Qui malus est, missi ad eum volo referte Gross 10% tui.
Cavendum est pessimorum, bubulae jerky !!!!
Great report Lyn. It’s a little dated but, you gave much more detail- both verbally and visually. Many aren’t going to FEMA camps. They will be going head to head with those coming to intern and re-educate. So they say. I KNOW what it is to have to few barrels of very powerful weapons pointed at you…sometime’s you have a change of heart (lol). Honestly- I don’t know what I will do until that time comes. That’s the issue- when? Nobody knows other than the head planners and when it’s time- the actors. This “Officer” blew it when he said, “you’re not here for that, you’re here for something else. See? they give their own damn selves away. Good job.
This 2nd comment is also for CrowPie. I meant to address the verse you posted in James. James 4:11-12 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
The context in this passage is what? The context is the law, and judging in the precepts of the law. This is NOT about judging whether or not a doctrine is true or not. You’ve misappropriated the verse out of context. You must learn to rightly divide the word of God. It’s like math, if you skip an order of operations… your answer will be wrong.
You are a presumptuous and self righteous example of horseflesh aren’t you.
You can’t see past your own thoughts long enough to apply my use of the scriptures to the occasion and see your own error.
You completely lack the ability to look inward and see your own behaviors and actions. You have Marched across these pages…not once taking into account that these are actual people….that I talk to….every day……and you talk to them as if they are trash……you Judge and condemn with impunity.
These people have feelings…..most already dislike Christians…..and Christianity……and your hateful hardnosed, stuck up sanctimonious attitude has done us no favors.
You have EVEN TREATED fellow Christians (who believe just a bit differently than YOU) like trash.
Thanks! You’ve just undone a whole lot of bridge building ….even among believers.
Ad hominems are not an intelligent rebuttal. When you take a verse out of context, and use eisegesis into the verse, you’ve presented an error. My actions are not what is being discussed. This is a Red Herring. The topic being addressed is heresy/error in doctrine. I fully understand these are actual people, I didn’t think it was an automated computer ad.
There is a HUGE difference between judging whether or not a doctrine/teaching is true, and the condemnation of someone. Not once did I say Lyn Leahz or you for that matter is going to Hell. The accusation that I have condemned is bearing false witness.
I do not judge a doctrine/teaching with impunity, I compare it to the bible. If it doesn’t agree with the scripture, I reject it. I am very careful on whom I call a brother or sister in Christ. The bible makes it very clear if someone brings “Another Jesus” or “Another Gospel”, they are NOT of God. The exercise of discernment is a biblical mandate. Your “claim” that you’re college educated in bible courses is questionable at best. Especially in light of how ignorant you are of examining a teaching.
Romans 16:17-18 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
2 Timothy 3:5-8 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
Ephesians 5:10-12 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
2 John 1:8-11 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Titus 3:10-11 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
2 Corinthians 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
2 Corinthians 11:12-15 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
2 Peter 2:1-3 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2 Timothy 4:1-4 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
The Bible, is EXCEEDINGLY CLEAR on this matter.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Hebrews 5:12-14 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
I was speaking of your behavior toward me.
And your own use of scripture is questionable in my eyes, however I would not be so rude as to call you ignorant.
I might call you mislead….but not ignorant.
Even in basic college literature arguments arise on the different interpretations of poems. How dare you insult a loving interpretation of the scripture over a more condemning version.
*misled*
I see you post a great many verses about judgement, rebuking, condemning, etc……
From what I learned about the life of Christ…..His teachings should fall like rain drops.
I see you doing little of the real teaching of Christ…..
Titus 3:2 To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.
1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
Psalm 18:35
You have given me the shield of your salvation, and your right hand supported me, and your gentleness made me great.
2 Timothy 2:24-26And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
James 3:17
But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Galatians 6:1
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
Proverbs 15:1
A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
1 Corinthians 13:4-5
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
2 Samuel 22:36
You have given me the shield of your salvation, and your gentleness made me great.
James 1:19-20 Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.
Ephesians 4:2 With all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love,
Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Isaiah 40:11 He will tend his flock like a shepherd; he will gather the lambs in his arms; he will carry them in his bosom, and gently lead those that are with young.
1 Thessalonians 2:7 But we were gentle among you, like a nursing mother taking care of her own children.
1 Timothy 6:11
But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.
This an old story???? BUSTED!!!
Which part of the Bible is Lyn misquoting/misapplying this time? I can’t see where she mentions anything about God. Some of you folk won’t be happy till you have her in sack cloth and ashes.
CrowPie, you must take in the whole council of God. You cannot just take verses you like and ignore others. These verses I posted clearly exhort the believer to examine any doctrine put forth. Failure to do so, allows a false teaching to go undetected.
Matthew 16:11-12 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Revelation 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
Jesus in his own words posted above, warns about false doctrine and hates it.
1 Corinthians 5:6-8 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
1 Corinthians 5:9-12 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1 Corinthians 6:1-5 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
The Bible repeatedly warns about false teachers, false prophets, and false brethren who shall lead people astray. If you practice spiritual apathy or laziness, these wolves will feast with impunity. We are admonished to be sober, diligent, and to defend the faith.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?
False prophets are everywhere, proclaiming things (falsely) that God has revealed to them.
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Jeremiah 23:25-26 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;
Jeremiah 23:28-32 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord. Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the Lord.
2 Timothy 3:15-17 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
The assertion you’ve made about how we’re not to judge, is 100% false.
Jesus did not select Paul to be a disciple before he was crucified. He did not select Paul to be the righteous replacement of Judas as a member of the 12. Paul told people he was selected. This selection was not preformed in sight of the apostles so they could verify it. However, a large part of the New Testament is written by Paul overshadowing by sheer volume the other writings and people trust that everything he says is true. What if Paul was allowed to teach by God so that people could realize that a
lesson may become slightly altered yet the basics for salvation can still exist in different Christian churches.
In 1 Corinthians chapter 5:9-13 Paul is teaching exactly the opposite of what Jesus taught.
Paul says throw the sinner out of the church and do not associate with him. Jesus was accused of associating with sinners and Jesus said he did that because he came to save sinners, the righteous did not need saving. How can one help a sinner if they refuse to associate with them? Who do you believe, Jesus or Paul?
Paul never said to BEGIN with rejection of a sinner. What did he say then? Nothing, at any time, in any writing, that contradicts anything Messiah ever taught.
Thus sayeth Messiah Himself:
“He that believeth on Him (the Son) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
And when the rich man asked Messiah to send Lazarus to preach to the rich man’s five brothers, Messiah rejected the request. He rejected the sinner when He said:
“If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”
BEEF… I understand that Jesus can read the hearts of people and makes decisions from that deeper knowledge. That is more difficult for everyone else. This man was a sinner but his sin
could be forgiven, people make mistakes. What is troubling is it appears to be less than perfect justice to expel him from the church. If he was in the church he had been seeking the path to salvation. He was not a person in total rejection of what the church taught; he was interested. It appears that Paul lacked faith of the righteousness of the church group. He did not believe they would behave in the right way and work together for good. Paul had no confidence in his followers.
His solution was to isolate them away from people they should be instrumental in helping.
Without friendship to guide him into integrity the sinner could lose the strength of will to overcome sin. I see no evidence that Paul even prayed for him. Honestly, it looks like Paul was more worried about loosing his influence than helping to save a soul.
insight 777 wrote:
“Paul had no confidence in his followers.”
Many of the brethren to which he ministered were a cause for lamentation and chastisement. Being the excellent communicator he was, Paul made very plain and sometimes public exhortations to his brothers and sisters – exhortations which were not always heeded accordingly. This at times led to further and sharper rebuke, as is to be expected when there is a very specific list of Commandments and Instructions we are expected to live by. And Paul didn’t make the Rules or give the Commandments: those were given to us from on High, Rules against which we must measure ourselves and with which we must strive to become in tune. Failing that, the believer is only inviting rebuke from his brethren. And the brethren are REMISS in their ordained duties if they neglect such rebuke.
“His solution was to isolate them away from people they should be instrumental in helping.”
How many times in the Old Testament do we read of one being ‘cut off from his people’? Is this act of being cut off a permanent punishment? The Gospel makes it very clear to us that it is no permanent punishment – at least, it doesn’t have to be, nor should it be. The wise man views a chastisement as a formative learning experience, as difficult and emotionally painful, but in the final analysis a good thing. The wise man welcomes a just rebuke, meditates on the cause, repents and asks forgiveness for his crime, trespass or sin.
“Without friendship to guide him into integrity the sinner could lose the strength of will to overcome sin.”
It is a fact that the sinner, once cut off, could reasonably be expected to suffer further the kind of loss and danger you describe by his being cut off. This is all the more reason for a sinner to consider his ways at such a time, and to make amends with his brethren.
“I see no evidence that Paul even prayed for him.”
That’s hardly a fair charge. Find you any evidence in Scripture of Paul using the privy? Me either. But the smart money says he did so once or twice. So too with fervent and prayer for other members of the Body. As part of the job description of an Apostle, it should well go without saying that Paul spent countless hours in prayer for the Body.
“…it looks like Paul was more worried about loosing his influence than helping to save a soul.”
Yet another unjust charge against a brother in Messiah. When I read Paul’s work, I see the words of a devout and sincere man whose main purpose for existence was the furtherance of the Gospel and the care for spiritual well-being of all brothers and sisters in Messiah.
I was a Paul accuser for a brief period, some six or seven years ago. Much study brought me to the conclusion that exactly none of the myriad charges against our brother can withstand the light of Truth. At no time did Paul ever teach in contradistinction to Messiah’s Commandments or to the Instructions of the Most High.
“Who do you believe, Jesus or Paul?”
I second the meaty motion that there are no contradictions between Jesus and Paul. Both are on the same team.
I would like to take this as an opportunity to draw a line in the sand as BEEF has done and stand with the Apostle Paul, my brother in the LORD, who watches now in the cloud of witnesses.
Through the Holy Spirit, Paul gave us most of the New Testament and nowhere at anytime or anywhere did Paul, after his conversion, do anything contrary to Jesus. In fact, Paul worked in concert with Jesus through the Holy Spirit. I stand here as a product of the grace Paul told us about, grace that always finds me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqd8MoiCbcI
Let everyone who reads this hear this: you can’t say from this point forward that you didn’t know what the Gospel message was, for here it is in a nutshell:
You do not want to go into Judgment Day without this too-wondrous-for-words thing called grace that Paul told us about. God is a holy God and God is a consuming fire. Sin is consumed in God’s holy presence. And on the Day of Judgment, God’s holy presence will burn up all unholiness and unrighteousness. And everyone of their own accord is unholy and unrighteous. None of us are perfect and righteous and holy. Our “good works” are nothing but filthy rags in the sight of a perfect and holy God (see Isaiah 64:6). Sin separates men from God. So men who rest on their own merits cannot exist in the presence of a holy God without being burned in the eternal fire on the Day of Judgment.
But the GOOD NEWS is this: we have a mediator for us between us and God. His name is Jesus. He is the High Priest that meets all our needs. For all those that accept Jesus, the Lamb of God, as the sacrifice for their sins and makes Him their Lord and Savior, they in effect “put on” the righteousness and holiness of Jesus Christ. So when God looks at them, He sees not their own righteous (or lack thereof) or holiness (or lack thereof), but He see the perfect holiness and perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ.
Blessed are those whose sins God will not count against them on the Day of Judgment!
They will be able to stand in the presence of the Holy One on the Day of Judgment without being consumed in the eternally raging inferno.
You can choose to believe in Jesus or not. The choice is up to you.
But choose wisely
for eternity beckons!
The “Good New” Jesus Christ came to deliver to the world is: “Repent for the Government of God is at hand”
Jesus Christ is the coming KING of that Kingdom/government and He comes with the Rod of Iron to rule all nations of the world and the LAW will go forth from Jerusalem. If any refuse to obey the commandments, Christ will use the Rod of Iron to “explain” to them –they must!
Jesus Christ Commands all to repent of transgressing the Commandments of God.
There is a difference between being judged and being condemned.
We are being “judged” during our lives, by the way we live or do not live the WAY of righteousness.
Unrighteousness is lawlessness.
What is being called “judgment day” is the time of the 3rd resurrection where all who refuse to obey the KING of kings are raised back to physical life – they come before Christ and all their sins are brought up before Christ and them –Christ sentences them to death and the angels cast the unrepentant sinners into the Lake of Fire which is the 2nd death and they die, they cease to exist for eternity. And that time is Called the Great White Throne Judgement.
Grace (kindness) is not a license to sin! Jesus Christ commands all to repent and to OBEY GOD!
TS said:
“they cease to exist for eternity.”
I pretty much agree with just about everything else you said except for that little “gem”, which is a blatant violation of the Word.
I’m sorry TS but for that particular phrase only, “they cease to exist for eternity”, I’ve got to issue a
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FALSE TEACHING ALERT!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How is it that you are such a stickler for the Word TS and yet in this particular instance you heed not what the Word says?
The Beast, or the one commonly called the AC, or Daniel’s little horn, is tossed into the lake of fire and tormented forever and ever. And the false prophet, and all those who will worship the Beast, and all those whose names are not written in the Lamb’s book of life all of them will be tossed into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
“And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Against annihilationism: http://shieldoffaith.net/blog/2014/a-critique-of-annihilationism/
Agains universalism: http://www.fether.net/index.php?page=refuting-universalism-a-quick-reference/
am123
read the scripture you quoted:
REV 20:10
“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
I am sure you are aware there is no punctuation in the Bible; thus this can be read as follows:
“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, {where the beast and the false prophet are (are is added) } and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever”
The devil, Satan is immortal spirit and can not die so he can be tormented for ever, BUT the Beast and the false prophet are humans made of the dust of the earth and when they are cast in to the lake of Fire they will became ashes. Please read Malachi 4 for verification that they will become ashes. All those cast into the Lake of Fire are burned to ashes and cease to exist for all eternity.
Human beings are not immortal, we are temporary life forms made from dust other wise how can Eternal life be an unearned GIFT? It is a gift we do not already have.
am123 If the one you follow will give eternal life to a pile of worthless flesh and blood just so He can torment them for ever I reject that so called god. That is not merciful.
“am123 If the one you follow will give eternal life to a pile of worthless flesh and blood just so He can torment them for ever I reject that so called god.”
TS, certainly you are aware of the Scripture that tells us that men will be condemned by their own words, so I would caution you to choose your words more carefully, for the Word does indeed speak of eternal torment. Those that worship the beast and take his mark will drink the full cup of God’s wrath and be tormented forever:
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
—REV 14: 9-11
You underestimate the fury of God’s wrath and you divideth not the Word correctly in regards to eternal torment.
I’m going on the record and siding with Truthseeker on this one. The punishment (2nd death) is for eternity, the fire is unquenchable, only Satan can be tormented forever and ever. The condemned are thrown into the lake of fire, after being resurrected if needs be, and they soon die and become as if they never were.
Answer me this, am123…
Sodom and Gomorrah were utterly destroyed, consumed by fire. Gen 19:24
In the NT it is described as an eternal fire. Jude 1:7
… What happened to the fire? It surely isn’t burning today. The whole point is that the same Greek word is used in the verses you reference as was used in Jude – aionis G166.
For example: in Rev 20:10 the term rendered “forever and ever” is from the Greek – eis tous aionas ton aionon – and literally means “unto the ages of the ages”. This could well mean eternity or it could mean sufficient unto the purpose ie culmination of the ages. It’s not as black and white as you think, my friend.
In Rev 14:11 it is the smoke that goes up practically forever. Out of sight to the naked eye would be in line with what this passage is saying, in my opinion. Those who worship the beast shall have no rest day or night and, after the the reign of Messiah Yehoshua, shall be thrown into the lake of fire to die and be no more.
am123
You must read scripture using logic and common sense,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
What is the wine of the Wrath of God? The 7 Trumpet plagues of the 7th Seal which is poured out from heaven upon those that have the mark and the number and it is done in the presence of the angels and Christ. Revelation say God torments with fire and brimstone and the Trumpet plagues torment and kill 100′s of millions but This says nothing about eternity.
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
and while they are being tormented they will have no rest on earth “day and night” day and night occur on earth. and as they burn what happens to the smoke from their torment from the 7 Trumpets? It rises into the air of the first heaven and is there for ever as it blows around the world.
These scriptures in no way show a place of torment for humans that last for ever and ever.
Am123 GOD is mercy!! if He was not — I would not be making this comment, I have done things that qualify me for no mercy ever at all and yet here am I explaining the great mercy God has shown me.
AND just look at David he committed adultery and murder and from him came Jesus Christ and David is to be king over all 12 tribes — that my friend is the mercy of God.
It is impossible for God the Father or Jesus Christ to torment any human and even Satan and he angels are simply pushed so far away from God it is the blackest of darkness, nothing else is done to them.
@Mayhem,
I believe the fire in GEN 19:24 was fire in the physical realm, but Jude 1:7 speaks of fire in the spiritual realm, they are not the same fire. Obviously the physical fire is not burning today, but the spiritual one is.
@TS + Mayhem,
Jesus was not engaging in idle or empty threats when He said:
“Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.”
—Matthew 18:8
He was speaking about being tossed into an everlasting fire, not a fire for a finite period. And in Mark, Jesus speaks of fire that is not quenched which again, is not an idle threat and is not for a finite period:
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
—Mark 9:43-48
@TS – you speak of mercy. Mercy is for those whose sins are not counted against them. Those that are tossed into the lake of fire do not receive mercy.
Both of you claim sinners will burn up and no longer exist. If that is true, who are these carcasses that will be around when the new heavens and new earth are created:
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
—Isaiah 66:22-24
These carcasses are the same ones Jesus was talking about.
The Word is crystal clear on this subject and says people will be tormented forever and ever. When Jesus said those that believe in Him will gain eternal life, He didn’t mean for a finite period, He meant forever and ever. So when the Word says “everlasting” or “forever and ever”, that is what it means.
The FALSE TEACHING ALERT still stands.
@am123… I accept your opinion and give it the same weight as my own, which isn’t much, but i was rather hoping you might show me the Scripture that makes it clear that my opening gambit is wrong.
Thanks for posting Mark 9:43-48. Spoken by Messiah Y’shua. Now then: where does He mention eternity?
The concept of eternal torment is the subject of this debate, am123, and the Bible is clear that this only applies to Satan. All others, including the Beast and False Prophet, die the second death, in the lake of fire, and are gone forever.
The God who gives the sun and the rains to the just and unjust alike, who doesn’t want any to perish and tells us to love our enemies could vengefully torment the condemned for eternity? Surely the unquenchable fire will be as it is written in Malachi 4:1-3.
You should know, am123, that your concept of Hell and Eternal Torment are wholly Catholic constructs first espoused by Tertullian and later backed up by St Cyprian. Is that the sort of support you’re going to rely on?
“You should know, am123, that your concept of Hell and Eternal Torment are wholly Catholic constructs first espoused by Tertullian and later backed up by St Cyprian”
I actually didn’t know that. I am not Catholic and there is only one true organized religion and it ain’t Catholicism. But anyway, I only know about the subject of eternal torment from what is written in the Bible. I do not go outside the Word for truth and a clear reading and rendering of the Bible speaks of eternal torment.
“The concept of eternal torment is the subject of this debate, am123, and the Bible is clear that this only applies to Satan.”
To the contrary, eternal torment applies to many others other than just Satan. For example, it also applies to those spoken of by Jesus when He spoke of worms that do not die and fires that are never quenched. They are the carcasses of those spoken of in CHP 66 of ISAIAH. They are not “gone forever”, they are on display for all eternity and are loathsome to all flesh.
“Surely the unquenchable fire will be as it is written in Malachi 4:1-3.”
Indeed it shall, no argument there from me.
We can but disagree then. I don’t see the difference as critical to Faith; given that whichever of us is correct the condemned are still screwed, forever.
You claim to never stray from the word yet you are clinging to doctrine that was invented by the Catholics. So sayeth the historical record. I thought you read their Bible, as i do, and yet there’s no chance they included Tertullian’s dogma? Even Constantinople fell for it, though he probably didn’t have a choice in the matter, and that is why it is in the KJV.
I need for you to answer my other question; where in Mark 9:43-48 does Jesus mention eternity? And for that matter; where does Isaiah 66: 1-24 mention eternal torment?
@am123. We can but disagree then. I don’t see the difference as critical to Faith; given that whichever of us is correct the condemned are still screwed, forever.
You claim to never stray from the word yet you are clinging to doctrine that was invented by the Catholics. So sayeth the historical record. I thought you read their Bible, as i do, and yet there’s no chance they included Tertullian’s dogma? Even Constantinople fell for it, though he probably didn’t have a choice in the matter, and that is why it is in the KJV.
I need for you to answer my other question; where in Mark 9:43-48 does Jesus mention eternity? And for that matter; where does Isaiah 66: 1-24 mention eternal torment?
Given you’ll, wisely, not argue against Malachi 4:3 could you explain how ashes are tormented forever and ever?
I am not being ugly but why lay on the floor exposing your arm pits. I like your stories but dang, I am sure you can take nicer pics that that. I am sure we all would like to see you sitting up in a nice dress or something.
You don’t have to hide anything from a sleeping public. And who can wake them if God has caused them to sleep except you pray and fast that God may hear and wake but a few.