Jer 5:31

The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

They lie to you and you believe it..becasue you love nothing better than to be lied to (a sure sign of a moron).

……HeramI…….Carbon 14 testing is very accurate….You can’t change the time it takes to dereriorate……I’ve got a volcanic stone carbon dated to over 7 million years. Knowing scripture is necessary, but common sense is just as important….This is the first thing I’ve read from you that looks like balderdash to me.

…Yes2….Do you know how carbon 14 dating works? Its exactly accurate…..The bible says “In the beginning God created heaven and Earth” It does not say when. I’ve got Dinosaur fossils that are way older than this earth age. You know about the first earth/heaven age….doncha?
….If you don’t know about the beginning…you will never understand how the end comes.

Further more, you do not have a dinosaur fossil. You have a fossil that you want to be from a dinosaur. Quite different things really. Let us see the evidence for Dino’s if you think you have it and i will show just how little we know about them.

……and the holocaust never happened……..and Faeries and trolls live in mushrooms…

That’s not fair Mayhem.

I also heard a coyote.

BTW max, I’m with you on the holocaust thing, but that’s another topic.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=curator+of+auschwitz+museum+admits+that+gas+chambers+were+built+after+the+war&tbm=vid

On the subject of Dinosaurs let me first say, max jones, that i accept there have been all manner of wonderful and scary creatures that we know very little about. Send men to find Dino fossils just don’t be surprised when that’s all they find. “Yes boss i be sure thems is dino bones. You want one with wings on, boss? Sure, no problem, we’ll find you one.”

Take a look at the T-Rex-a-me-bob in the Smithsonian, impressive would you agree? What if you were to find out that it’s about 10% complete and that the artist rendering the impression was the most honest person involved with the discovery? What if you were to find out that all other T-Rex’s were plaster of-paris-molds taken from the one in the Smithsonian? What if you were to learn that one of our more recent discoveries did fit into a shoe box yet we extrapolated a 20-40ft long lizard thing from it?

So many lies and so little time, Max, read a book Bro, ffs.

….Job 40:15…Talks about “behemoth”. Not hippo, or elephant…neither has a tail like a cedar tree…..Eats off of the top of a mountain…consumes rivers of water…..First earth/heaven age, before the firmament was breached…before the Katabole….before Satan’s rebellion….dinosaurs.

Yes, max jones, Behemoth was the land based monster just as Leviathan is the aquatic monster. The names do not describe these beasts and only we say “Dinosaur” whereas the word says “monster” H8577… תַּנִּין … tannin… noun, masculine = monster.

…so…who has a come back on the first earth/heaven age? I don’t blame you if you don’t want my viewpoint. I screwed up…and we know how that goes….makes all I say suspect of fabrication. So…you tell me what the first age was like.

Mayhem…and disobedience is exactly what it was…..The humans “agreed” to the sin, in disobedience. I’m sorry that you all have to complicate the teachings, in my mind its a cover for intellectual pride…..which was actually Lucifer’s sin. If my doctrine was misguided I would not be alive as I am. In the Holy Spirit. Why would the Lord encourage someone who furthers bad doctrine….he wouldn’t. There was an age before this “flesh” age. before the
Katabole…when satan and his ‘followers’ were kicked out of the presence of God….It blew out the firmament…the protective membrane that surrounded this globe.
Before that time this planet was a tropical type environment….Covered with vegetation the world over. many times the oxygen saturation, we have today. The environment was so rich…It produced huge animals and I’ve seen a fossil of a dragonfly that was 18 inches, wing tip to wing tip…..That creature could not even generate the lift it needed to fly in this atmosphere….believe it or not….I know its true.

Who has it “expateo”? Are you really going to uphold the Greek over Hebrew when, rightly, dividing the Old Testament? Strong’s has it H5377 … “nasha”… verb= made. Contextually the word has it “hiš·šî·’a·nî” which equates to ‘the devil made me do it’. We are talking about Gen 3:13 aren’t we?

To continue in the claim that Eve was seduced to sexy times with the snake you must allow that Adam was similarly seduced for he ate of the very same fruit. You can’t avoid this point but you may try.

So about this previous age:

Your position is that untold eons ago God created the heavens and the earth. That God populated the earth with a plenitude of angelic beings and you and i were there, in angelic bodies. At some point Satan convinced 1/3 of God’s children to rebel against God in a cataclysmic revolution, Katabole, to overthrow God and take over the universe. Is that about right?

Katabole means foundation not cataclysmic overthrow.

Regarding the holocaust, I’m sorry BEEF and Mayhem, but there are too many first hand eye witness accounts of the atrocities. I heard from a holocaust survivor in college once and she was not faking it and she was not an actress. There are too many such first-hand accounts for them all to be lying and there is film footage. Hitler was real and so was his regime.

…Mayhem…Foundation, exactly right….OF THIS AGE. But, at this juncture it also means “overthrow”. So back to the fig grove….the Lord showed up after Adam and Eve had “eaten” the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil…and they hid themselves in the trees…and get this; they tied fig leaves ACROSS THEIR MOUTHS, for they knew they had sinned, and were ashamed……Is that about right?
….they covered their sex parts…….
123…about the Earth/heaven ages…..I will get back on that….

…123…The ‘dragon’s’ tail swept a third of the stars out of the heavens…..And that’s NOT astrotheology…

@max jones: “The ‘dragon’s’ tail swept a third of the stars out of the heavens…..And that’s NOT astrotheology”

the dragons tail refers to the constellation of ‘draco’ – which when it leaves the sky (due to the earths rotation ) , it falls into the ‘abyss’. this gave the appearance that 1/3 of the stars in the sky went with it

its astrotheology

…123….Ok, I concede….I can’t prove to you what I’m about to write…..Those stars that were swept down, ARE the very same devils that they started out to be….It seems like thousands of years to us, but to timeless beings…. It’s the next move in the game.
…You and I will hit another faux-impasse when i bring up, that we’re about to be introduced to the actual presence of demons, and their “progeny”, in a masquerade involving spacecraft, and inter-dimentional technology….could be the culmination of the rapture trap. When things get so scary awful and deadly…scaly reptilians will look just like angels of God.

…..All of the “details” we discuss and sometimes argue about…each of us with our own interpretations, and references till the sun comes up, sometimes…..is really pointless to a big extent…unless you’re still thinking there is “evangelizing” still to do. I don’t. The people who might be amenable to scripture are those who already, have a ‘churchified’ mind, and they’ve already been programmed by some institutional doctrine or any one of a million televangelists…selling rapture…or spiritism.
…..All the rest already have their own “theology”. Most worship at the altar of self…and there’s a few who have their own head up somebody’s else’s butt…
….None of it means anything…the end is on us now and there is nothing any body can do about it. If your spiritual state is such that you can make the adjustments, as revelations are presented, everything will fall into place….
…..There is a certain group called the Zedoc, who have been with the father since day one, they are all here on the planet now…and here is where we go back to the third of the stars…These troops that are now on the planet, also.
….Satan is supernatural, and he “lends” this power to his ‘troops, the same way that Jesus has made the Holy Spirit available to us….This is a true WAR….How old the earth is at this point is irrelevant. But I will say that if you don’t know how it all began(way more than 6000 years ago)….you will not know how it ends.
…..The most important event in the history of our human existence is coming soon…the unveiling of the most slippery and diabolical being to ever exist. our nemesis…Satan.

The end only means the end of the sun being above the equator. When winter comes, everything ends (dies…not everything, but you understand). Once the winter cycle ends, life begins anew. Plants start growing again, animals spring back to life from their hibernation, etc and we do it all over again.

The cool thing about all of this is that it is literally written in the stars. The ancients knew this. The constellations told them when to do just about everything. They studied the stars. They worshipped the Sun/son. Just like Catholics and Protestants. They just don’t know it.

am123 wrote:

“…there are too many first hand eye witness accounts of the atrocities. I heard from a holocaust survivor in college once and she was not faking it and she was not an actress. There are too many such first-hand accounts for them all to be lying and there is film footage. Hitler was real and so was his regime.”

This serves perfectly to highlight the major blind-spot which rolls into view the very instant this topic is tabled for conversation. Has anyone on this page denied Hitler existed? Has anyone denied his Nazi regime?

Again, above when I said INTERNMENT CAMPS – did that alone not leave ample room for ‘atrocities’ such as dying gruesome deaths via starvation, mistreatment and execution – most likely including torture in many instances? Did anyone deny the role of sadistic prison guards or psychotic wardens?

Listen to what IS being denied, am123. What IS being denied is ANY program for the wholesale slaughter of this people. There was NO extermination program. There were NO cyanide chambers used to kill inmates as a matter of routine.

And here is an inconvenient fact which literally harpoons the lie you have bought because you flatly refuse to investigate it – the ‘shower’ doors at Auschwitz open INWARD. You think about that and see if you can make it jive with German engineering. Imagine the heaps of dead bodies piled up against the door each and every time they Jews were (supposedly) gassed by the hundreds.

Lies, am123.

….omega…..Thanks for your post… I just looked up “carbon 14′ online and found the 5000 year figure. Which tells me I spent good money on a worthless chunk of basalt
…As far as the rest. I agree with you practically all the way through.
…I believe the biggest disagreement is about the age of the earth. Bible says 6000 years. Common sense tells me that is erroneous. First lines in Genesis says God created heaven and earth…it didn’t say when that happened. I have seen with my own eyes evidence of the first age….Where the earth was a tropical haven for super oxygenated, huge species…and evidence of the end of that age…Which gave us the “foundation” of our own environment…..that when compared to the beauty of the Lord and his angels is literally “hell on earth”.
…The firmament will be renewed in the millennium, and conditions on this planet will improve, when the trouble makers are exposed and dealt with.
….Mark `13:20 says…”And except that the Lord had shortened those days(Satan’s reign), no flesh should be saved: but for the elects sake, whom He has chosen, He hath shortened the days. This tells me that only the “elect” make it out as living, breathing human beings….everybody else has the silver chord cut.

Hello, Omega Files, welcome back to the fray. You make good points and i have much to consider. I’m way out of my depth on the topics you and Beef have raised and i’m going to hold my counsel until i get my ducks in order.

I do agree that there is an apparent them of sexual disobedience which i had understated to make a point. Just one thought…

“IF the original sin was sexual, wouldn’t that be considered an act of disobedience?”

… yes but Adam and Eve were not warned about having sex. They were warned about eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge. Sex is only a portion of that knowledge and i have to wonder if there was more important stuff we weren’t supposed to know.

@Beef Supreme, you shocked me by pointing out how blithely i tossed the term “animal skin” into what Scripture says. It was a lesson in diligence and an eyeopener about how easy it is to screw up these discussions. Before i checked i was absolutely certain the Bible said “Animal skin”. Everyone knows it says “Animal skin” except it says no such thing. Hmmmm?

max said:

“I can’t prove to you what I’m about to write”

Hey, we agree on something.

max said:

“unless you’re still thinking there is “evangelizing” still to do. I don’t.”

Really?

You don’t think the great end time harvest Jesus talked about will be reaped? You don’t think God’s plan includes the great harvest before the beast comes, one final chance for mankind to accept the Gospel? The Gospel will be preached to the whole world and then the end will come:

/alternative/2013/02/the-sons-of-god-are-going-to-astound-the-world-2565258.html

max said:

“The most important event in the history of our human existence is coming soon”

What is coming may be important but THE most important event happened at Calvary.

“I did think you might have abandoned this field permanently, but she does have some sort of sinister magnetism that makes leaving difficult.”

I think HumanBeing can attest to that

Some very interesting topics here boys. Anyone else wonder how such seemingly disparate topics came together in one thread? Maybe they are not so different after all. ALWAYS wondered why the masons covered their genitals with a lamb skin apron. I’m still on the fence as to the sexual nature of the garden of EDEN business but it does seem to rhyme in ways with the other story’s in the good book as mentioned by Omega Files. Another thing that always confused me. It appears ADAM was kicked out of the garden but EVE was allowed to stay? Did I read that wrong? And…. any consensus on “the mark of cain” ?

…123…When was the last time you had anyone “saved” in your presence?
…Yes …….the MOST notable event is the “culmination” of Christ’s mission on earth….this time Jesus comes with an army……It is the fruition of his sacrifice….What His suffering and crucifixion was all about…..defeating “death”…..from your viewpoint the crucifixion and resurrection,was the most important event….on personal levels, I’m sure you are right…..But what do you think about the victory “He” has over Satan/death….not nearly as important as your ” personal” salvation….maybe to you, but not to me.
…I’ve waited for this since day one.

Beef Supreme said, “I believe they were given skins of FLESH, commensurate with our flesh, which would serve as physical bodies for fallen, sinful beings. I believe the material of which their bodies consisted prior to the offense was altogether different from our physical composition, so I find it possible that physical sexual concourse, of the kind we are familiar with, may not have been precisely what occurred in the Garden.”

Ultimately I have been hindered by the belief set that would point to a rebellion, in this physical plane that we live in now, before the creation of Adam and the original sin. Note: I believe the general or popularized term for this is Gap Theory, though I refrain here from identifying any of my own beliefs with the particulars of that terminology. Furthermore, it has always been my assumption that the Garden was a physical place on this planet because the clock of creation had already begun and also because Adam was formed from the dust of that plane (i.e., as it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end). However, now that I mention it, it would be a wise of me to look in to this concept of being formed from the dust (Earthy, star, etc.) Can’t say that I have actually considered the matter before, but obviously deserving of our attention.

I also believe that THERE WAS a sexual COMPONENT to the original sin. My phrasing earlier was flawed for having given the impressing that sex was the whole of the original sin. My stance would then be more accurately summarized as follows: The Word appears to be have been designed to establish a stronger connection with the sexual component of the original sin than any other act of disobedience. The first command given to Adam was to multiply, to create more life. Thus, the Seprent was given his first weapon to use against us. As such, I believe that sex is, and always has been, the most critical and deceptive weapon for the Enemy. But, here is where I run in to the brick wall that you have just placed on the discussion (temporary, let’s hope).

If, as we all have heard, the Serpent is now a being of light, capable of all those things like the ability to shapeshift (2 Corinthians 11:14), cross dimensions (Job 1 and 2), and manipulate time (Luke 4:5), then it opens up the possibility that Adam was more like him before the fall since it is the Enemy who may try to mock the act of creation by taking credit for guiding Adam-kind’s return to that “previous” body. Adam Kadmon?

So, I can’t really disagree with anything that you wrote. Just for the sake of our better understanding, how might the phrasing for the formation of Adam play a role in providing us with a clue as to what he was actually formed from? For this scenario to work, it would seem as if, though greatly different from one another, the celestial bodies and Adam-kind bodies were made from the same material (the Atom?). Interestingly enough, the word used for the creation of man in Genesis 1:27 was “אֱלֹהִים ‘elohiym” – “Plural of H0433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:—angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty” (http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/0430.html).

Mayhem said, “Adam and Eve were not warned about having sex. They were warned about eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge. Sex is only a portion of that knowledge and i have to wonder if there was more important stuff we weren’t supposed to know.”

I agree with you on all that. But I believe that it is also important to also consider the possibility that the bite into this (figurative?) fruit from the tree of knowledge was a “big bang”, for lack of a better analogy. Consider that it was an instantaneous moment. There could have been other acts of disobedience happening at that time but at that critical moment, enough was enough. If the physical nature of Adam is true, then I see no other possibility other than that this bite, the big bang, was in relation to penetration and the Serpent. If the celestial nature of the original Adam is true, then we simply may not have minds calibrated to comprehend what the exact nature of the original sin was. I claim no knowledge of the truth on this matter.

I’m simply interested in the benefits of discussing the possibilities.

As iron sharpens iron…

first off, I am a plucker when typing so all proper use of grammer and such get’s tossed out the window. so don’t beat me up over that.
since the reply starts with hereami , so shall i start. ” neither would he do it from a farm animal”… who says? all things are possible with god. ( i did not read/ listen to above thread). ” watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation.” temptation is sure to come. luke 17 :1, my prayer is that you not take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. John 17:15,
ok how about a thought i have had on ” the third of the stars being swept down” end time stuff for sure. my thought was these STARS are the satellites we has humans have put up in orbit. that fall from the sky. think EMP or CME.
Now on the tree of knowledge of good and evil, most bible readers can make the connections of Rev. 22: 2. In the midst of the street thereof, and on both sides of the river. ( read that again )was the tree of life. bearing twelve fruits, yielding it’s fruits every month, and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 and there shall be no more curse any more; but the throne of god and of the lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him.
then back to Genesis, 2: 9- 18 , i will let the ones with ears go and read what i leave out, and will start with 2: 17 But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat.for in what day soever thou shall eat of it, thou shalt die the death. .hmmmm how could that relate to being born again!hmmm.
study the words used in these two verses . the first will be last and the last will be first.
wow that”s way to much work for a plucker, love the discussions with like minded thinkers and open to learning always. peace to those who proclaim Jesus as their way to the father.

Also important is the word for image, “created man in His own image”.

Image: 6754 צֶלֶם tselem {tseh’-lem}:From an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, that is, (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence a representative figure, especially an idol:—image, vain shew.

I have to laugh at “plucker”…i am one too.

Anyways, you said, ” and on both sides of the river. ( read that again )was the tree of life. bearing twelve fruits, yielding it’s fruits every month, and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 and there shall be no more curse any more; but the throne of god and of the lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him.”

The tree of life is the Sun, the 12 fruits are the 12 signs of the Zodiac (one for each month). No more curse because after March 21st, the cycle starts over and things begins to SPRING back to life. The river is the Equator. Google Santos Bonacci for more info to explain the REAL meaning of the bible.

Mayhem, Stong’s has it:

H5377
נשׁא
nâshâ’
naw-shaw’
A primitive root; to lead astray, that is, (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce: – beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.

“As a small point “seduced” can mean either persuading someone to have sex with you or persuading someone to do something. The default position is not necessarily sexual innuendo.”

Duly noted and agreed. But you seemed to be saying the Hebrew word didn’t allow for the idea of ‘seduction.’ Strong’s lists both ‘seduction’ and adds ‘utterly.’

I think you owe Max a cookie.

(they still call them biscuits down there?)

“And never, ever call them ANZAC cookies…”

Or the Governor General will rain chains on your face.

I can only go by what’s in front of me and i repeat. My link to Strong’s Concordance does not allow for “seduction”, except in the Greek. As i’ve mentioned earlier my take on The Word used in Gen 3:13 (hiš·šî·’a·nî) is “the devil made me do it”. Where am i going wrong?

In allowing the Bible to explain itself i look to other passages where this term is used. For example: Psalm 55:15, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Obadiah. And not once do i find a sexual theme. Contextually these examples suggest deceit, period.

It gets very confusing for this literalist, i hardly cope with English yet the Hebrew is written backwards and the Greek is just messed up Calligraphy that makes Pidgin look like a good alternative. Ahhh, my head hurts.

…Omega….I read your big bang theory about the sin in the garden….I totally agree that incident was the start of a whole bunch of “forbidden Knowledge” we have bitten since then…could the “Knowledge” of how to split an atom be part of this…..?
….the knowledge of good and evil, could have read “the knowledge of THE DIFFERENCE, between good and evil. Good is inwardly beneficial….evil is outwardly beneficial…power is inherently evil…Love is inherently good.
…It comes down to self-centered and other-centered attitudes….I can’t think of a more self centered person than when he/she is nearing orgasm. There is moment there where the mind is utterly possessed by physical sensation…

…beef…I love you man….
…now, “the difference between good and evil”, is what the two human subjects might have experienced. It would have been the most moving “moral” lesson ever. and if we had that lesson in our culture, it could have been a whole lot different, for us. Our culture grew up thinking up was down and Evil had its positive characteristics…like ill gotten gains and lascivious behavior…along with self-centered lifestyles…
…The catholic church, which really does have great power in this world, had a great chance to be a huge moral influence…..Now, to educated Christians, it looks more like a cesspool of greed and lasciviousness. Not a moral guide at all.
…the “peace sign” that all old hippies know about was also a representation of the dualistic “unity”….the mingling.

…beef…tommy chong looks great for his age……He’s 12 years older than I am….I guess he’s the poster boy for “whattaya mean…”gateway drug”…..looking at his peaceful face I can tell he never got caught in that hollywood coke/speed hell. I’m kinda proud of him.

I have to say thank you to all you gentlemen. I do appreciate the debates that you hold here.

Even when I disagree, do not hold a particular interest in the subject matter, or am previously uneducated in the topic and so never join the conversation, the enjoyment of the read that you create is epic gentlemen, epic.

I do so hate to hear of HumanBeings having closed her account. It is our loss and we shall suffer for it. She added a great deal to our community. Maybe she will be led to join your ranks again.

Thank you for allowing me to be a fly upon the wall.

Have a wonderful evening.

Noooo, Thank you, Mr. Supreme.

I realized that I never thanked you properly for standing up for me that day on subject of compliments. I’d like to do that now. Thank you.

Also, I’m not real big on arguing scripture. It puts a pit in my stomach. I’ll leave that to the experts with excellent typing skills and grammar. “Us lil o’ country guls jus don hav the constitution for it.”

Again, good evening to you…..

Hey Max.. you aren’t by chance confusing Cain with Tubal-Cain are you?

Belay my last.

….Mayhem…the so-called Lost tribes of Israel were not lost…The whole group, nick named Ephraim, were taken captive and dragged into Assyria’s powerful web, about 400 years before the birth of Christ. They never went back. It resulted in the ‘diaspora’…the converted Israeli residents in Gentile countries scattered abroad….’as numerous as the stars.’ Many many of the descendants of these pilgrims, are now members of Christ’s body…as were their ancestors. These people were descended from the Hebrews….Adamic people…God’s people..by covenant….and by blood.