| Story Views | |
| Now: | |
| Last Hour: | |
| Last 24 Hours: | |
| Total: | |
Jesus: I Want To Tell You What I Mean By Immortality… From The Padgett Messages.
May 28th, 1915.
Received by: James Padgett.
Washington D.C.
I am here, Jesus.
I want to tell you what I mean by immortality, as you and your friend differed today in your ideas of what it means.
When Adam (as he is called) was told that if he should disobey God and eat of the forbidden fruit, he should surely die, the word death meant death of the soul, so far as its future progress in that which would insure its receiving the Divine essence of the Father’s Love was involved. It did not mean the physical death or the death of the body, because it is very apparent that after his doom was pronounced, he lived in the flesh a great many years.
But his soul’s progression stopped, and it was only after my coming to earth and teaching the doctrine and truth of man being restored to the condition which Adam occupied before his fall, did mankind have the privilege of becoming immortal again – that is, of being permitted and in condition to obtain that soul progress which would enable them to become one with and a part of the Father in His Love and Affections.
I do not mean that Adam was endowed with this Divine Love when he was created, but that he had that formation of soul potentialities which, if properly exercised, would have brought him in that unison with the Father that would have made his nature Divine; and when he disobeyed the commandments of the Father, he died, so far as that possibility of obtaining the Divine nature was concerned.
As to those who lived on earth between Adam’s fall and my revelation of the truth of redemption, they did not receive this nature, or potentiality, and were compelled to live only as mortals and spirits having the natural love. They never were admitted into the Father’s heavenly kingdom, but existed merely as spirits having the natural love which was bestowed upon Adam and his race.
Abraham, Isaac and the rest of the persons who are described in the Bible as being children of God, and obedient to his commands, were not partakers of this Divine nature, and became so only after my coming to earth and showing the way to its attainment.
When I was sent to earth, God sent me with the truth as to mankind’s redemption, and at the same time conferred upon mankind the privilege of receiving His Divine Essence. No sacrifice or death of mine brought this great boon – but only with my coming came this Love and the way to obtain it.
Adam was not created immortal, but had only the potentiality of immortality, and after his “death” man ceased to have even this potentiality – until God sent it to them with my coming to earth.
When it was said, “as in Adam all men died, so in (me) were all men made alive,” it was merely meant that when Adam fell, that which formed a part of his being and made it possible for him to become immortal was taken from him; that is, as to that potentiality and privilege, he died, and was no more able to attain to the condition of soul that enabled him to become one with the Father, or to partake of His Divinity; and that in this condition of death mankind remained until, as I say, I came and brought with me the restored gift of the soul attribute which made it possible for man to again become immortal.
When this gift was bestowed upon man, it was also bestowed upon all those who were then living in the spirit world, but they could obtain it only in the way that was provided for man to obtain it. Understand me, everything that was lost by Adam’s fall was restored by my coming with the restored gift; and it embraced every spirit who had ever lived as mortal and every mortal who thereafter lived up to the present time.
My coming, of itself, or the death or sacrifice of me by the Jews, did not restore mankind to the condition that existed in Adam before his fall; I was only a messenger of God sent with that gift, and to teach the truth of its restoration to mankind and to spirits. And when, after my death, I descended into hell, as the Bible says (but which saying does not express the destination of my going, for the true meaning is that I went into the world of spirits), I proclaimed to the spirits the truth of the bestowal of this restored life which had been lost by Adam’s disobedience.
All spirits, good and bad, now have this restored potentiality of obtaining the Divine nature that I have spoken of, and immortality. So you see, when Adam died it was the death of the soul quality or potentiality which makes immortality possible.
When the Bible speaks of those men of ancient times who were God’s prophets and beloved children as walking with Him, it merely means that they had obtained such a high development of their natural love that they could occupy those spheres in the spirit world (upon their physical death), which made them – mere spirits of mortals – close to the Father and supremely happy. I mean that happiness which does not partake of the Divine nature. They were not in the same condition of soul attributes as was Adam before his fall, for they did not have this potentiality; and any interpretation of anything written in the Bible which gives to any man or spirit at that time the possibility of receiving the Divine Essence of the Father is erroneous and misleading.
As I have said, my death or sacrifice by blood, as is emphasized in creeds and worship of the churches, did not in the slightest degree work to bring about the restoration of this great favour of God to man. They were merely the results of the conditions of the beliefs of men in the Jewish nation, which would not tolerate my declarations of truth. My death, etc., did not appease any wrath of God towards men; but of His own Great Love for His creatures He bestowed this gift, or privilege of the soul, which man had lost by Adam’s disobedience.
(question) It was the disobedience of believing that he was not dependent upon God for the soul quality or potentiality that made it possible for him to partake of God’s Divine nature. The tree of good and evil merely represented the knowledge that God had reserved unto Himself of the existence of that which, if known to Adam, would have subjected him to temptations that would destroy this soul quality of which I have spoken. And when Adam ate of the fruit of this tree – that is when he disobeyed God and sought the knowledge of those things which subjected him to the temptations that might cause him to cease to be all good – God took away the potentiality of Adam becoming one with Him and immortal. It was a direct punishment for disobedience, and the result was that man was left mere man, either as a mortal or as a spirit.
I do not think that it was ever said that if Adam should eat of the tree of life, he would live forever and become as a god, because he was already the recipient of this tree of life: in that attribute of his soul which could, by its proper development, make himself like the gods. And here you must understand that “gods” could mean only those who possessed this Divine nature of the Father. There was only one God, and all other living beings in the spirit world were merely those who were possessed of the God-like qualities of love and obedience; none were gods. The angels of God were merely the spirits that I have last described.
When it was said that man was made a little lower than the angels, it meant that while these angels had that Divine nature perfected to a more or less degree, man had only the potentiality of soul that would enable him to obtain that development which would perfect him so that he could become an angel. But this saying does not apply to any man born after Adam, and before my coming with the announcement that God had restored to man this Divine attribute which Adam had forfeited.
So you see, the loss of immortality does not mean the death of the physical body, but the death of that quality or potentiality of the soul which enabled man to become like the Father in certain of His Divine attributes. And more strictly speaking, the mere possession of the soul of this quality is not immortality, or rather it does not make a man or spirit immortal, but merely gives him such quality of soul and potentiality that, by its proper development, he may become immortal.
In the future, all men, either as spirits or mortals, will possess that soul quality or potentiality, until the great day of judgment shall again take from those who have not, at the time, perfected their souls into the enjoyment of the Divine nature, as I have explained. When that day comes, those who are without this Divine essence in their souls will be forever deprived of the privilege of receiving the great gift of this Divine Essence, or in other words, of God’s Divine Love. And after that time, those spirits who have never acquired this Divine nature will be permitted to live merely as spirits enjoying their natural love – just as Adam after his fall, and all spirits and men who lived between that time and my coming, lived only in their natural love. This is the second death. Adam’s was the first, and the great day of judgment will declare the second. And after that, never again will man have the opportunity of partaking of this Divine Essence of the Father and becoming “as one of the gods.”
Men may reason to the utmost of their limited intellects in the way of saying that God would not subject his creatures to this second death and thereby deprive them of this great boon of becoming partakers of His Divine nature, and the great happiness that comes with it, but such reasoning, or the conclusion reached, will not change the fact. What I tell you is the fact, and many men, to their sorrow, will when too late realize that it is true.
And men will not be justified in complaining of this. The opportunity is now given and will in the future be given to all men and spirits to become the children of the Father, in the angelic and Divine sense, and if they refuse to do so, they can have no grounds upon which to base the accusation of injustice against the Father or His Love.
He will still be their Father, even though they may not accept His Great Gift, and they will from the natural love bestowed upon them be comparatively happy; but they will not partake of His heavenly Kingdom. They will be like the guests invited to the marriage feast, who, because of various excuses, declined to attend. While they were not deprived of other food and sustenance, yet the more precious food which the host had provided for them at the feast, they never partook of, and never thereafter had the opportunity to.
Many of my parables in the Bible illustrate this great truth when properly understood – as men did in those days when I was on earth, but now harden their hearts and shut their intellects to the truths of these parables and to my teachings.
Of course, ultimately, all these men will be saved from sin and error, and in fact, sin and error will be destroyed entirely. Men and spirits will live in comparative happiness; but they will live in death and not in life, so far as the life of the soul, with its possibilities of becoming Divine and of enjoying the great happiness which the Divine Love of the Father bestows, is concerned.
So you see, immortality does not pertain to the physical body or to the spiritual body, or to the soul unqualifiedly, but to those qualities of the soul which makes it possible for the soul to become in its nature Divine. And immortality does not mean mere continuous existence, because every spirit and every soul may live through all eternity in their individualized form. When it was said in the Bible that I brought immortality and life to light, it did not mean that I showed man merely that they would, as spirits, continue to live forever, but it meant that they would live forever in the Father’s Kingdom, with natures Divine and not capable of being deprived of the great and true life which is found only in that Kingdom.
So let you and your friend think over what I have written, and in places where my meaning may not appear plain, I will try, by the inspiration of my knowledge and power, to enlighten your souls and intellects. You are both very mediumistic and easy recipients of inspiration, and as your souls seem to be attuned to the truth, and as you are seeking earnestly for the truth, I will endeavour with all my powers to inspire you with such intellectual thoughts and spiritual perceptions as will enable you to see these truths in all their nakedness – face to face, and not as through a glass, darkly.
I must now stop – and give you my blessings, and the blessing of the Father.
Your friend and brother, Jesus
The Padgett Messages are free here: Divine Love Spirituality
“As I have said, my death or sacrifice by blood, as is emphasized in creeds and worship of the churches, did not in the slightest degree work to bring about the restoration of this great favour of God to man.”
====================
FALSE TEACHING ALERT!!! MORE SPEWAGE FROM THE PITS OF HELL!!!!
This article is 180 degrees from what the Bible teaches and has one aim—turning people away from the salvation which is ours through the precious blood of Jesus.
Mankind lost eternal life and fellowship with God in the garden of Eden. The sacrifice of Jesus restored that for mankind. No other name has been given under heaven that men might be saved. Do not be misled by the garbage in this article. Seek Jesus while He may be found. Seek Him not and survive not. The choice is up to you.
I am glad you said that about the article being 180 degrees from what the Bible says, because that’s what I reckon too. And that’s why Jesus had to come again, to James Padgett, so as to tell us the truth and help sort out some of the confusion brought about by the untruth in the Bible. In the Padgett Messages, Jesus says his coming to James Padgett is his Second Coming of truth, so all those people waiting from him are going to be waiting a very long time.
Thanks for the message from Jesus, James. We better get the word out quick though since nobody has ever heard this message other than you. We have a lot of Biblical literature to discredit first before people will accept the message that was only delivered to you personally so time is of the essence. Most will say you are insane or deceived by evil spirits but we can’t let that dissuade us because you talked to Jesus so I totally believe you. We have no time for sleep now as we need to sign up for every blog we can find and spread this message far and wide. I will be your first disciple and together we can spread the true message.
That’s a bit sad really.
So did Jesus amend his travel plans 18+ centuries later…making him a liar the first time he said he’s returning and the circumstances surrounding that 2nd Coming?!
James wrote “In the Padgett Messages, Jesus says his coming to James Padgett is his Second Coming of truth, so all those people waiting from him are going to be waiting a very long time.”
Rather consistent testimony in the Scriptures, nothing confusing here:
Behold, he COMETH WITH CLOUDS; and EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM, and THEY ALSO WHICH PIERCED HIM: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Revelation 1:7
Jesus saith unto him [the high priest], Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto YOU, Hereafter SHALL YE SEE the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and COMING IN THE CLOUDS of heaven.
Matthew 26:64
Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man COMING IN THE CLOUDS of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:29-30
sharonjorgen, from reading The Urantia Book, there is also a possibly that a lot of what is said in Revelation and even what you’ve said concerning Jesus coming and all will see him, might actually be referring to a fast distant time when humanity has healed itself of its rebellion and the Morontia Temple descends to Earth for the enlightened humans of that age. For through the Temple all will be able to see Jesus descend to Earth, and he will be coming in full celebration on a planetary visit, thereby lovingly embracing everyone who has partaken of the Divine Love and is living a Celestial level of truth in flesh. So things might be a little confused as to what could possibly happen now with the End Times, and what might happen many years hence.
James, this scenario you describe (“when humanity has healed itself of its rebellion”) defeats the purpose and/or necessity for a 2nd coming [Think Harvest]:
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. {Matthew 24:22}
1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.
7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
James 5
Not at all, it just means such a ‘Harvest’ might not be now, it might be in the future; or it might be symbolic that with Jesus’ re-revealing of the truth beginning with the Padgett Messages, the Harvest is taking place now – it’s begun, and will continue right through the next spiritual and planetary age. And all those people who persist in looking to the material realm for their comfort, including both rich and poor (because there are just as many poor people who consider themselves elite and superior over other poor people, or even richer and superior to rich people, only in other ways), will be shown in time that their ‘Way of the Mind’ is not the true ‘Way of the Heart – of FEELINGS’, as they are forced in one way or another to give up trying to assert control over themselves, nature, everyone else and God.
And only those people who look to do their healing – look to become true to themselves, will actually succeed in giving up the ‘pleasures and allurements’ thereby being the ones who are ‘harvesting themselves’ if you like, as they remove themselves from their self-imposed cross and evilness.
So the Second Coming is vital, because the First Coming has been so wantonly corrupted, and now that Jesus has come again, we can begin to look to him truly for The Way. However as I’ve said, I believe Jesus’ coming in the Padgett Messages is only part of an overall much larger Second Coming of truth, that which is still being revealed, with The Urantia Book being part of it.
WTF
These reactions to the Padgett Messages shows me that if Jesus did come to Earth today, most of those people who ‘believe’ in him, would reject him – probably want to nail him to a cross!
Mind you, it’s what I expected.
When He comes again HE WILL BE DOING THE ‘NAILING’ so you had better repent of your nonsense asap.
You should write your own bible, as everything you say directly contradicts what is declared by scripture. Did you not read that bit about false Christs?
So according to scripture, Jesus of the Padgett Messages is a false Christ. But what would happen if it turns out that the Jesus you people believe in according to scripture is only a fantasy, and the Jesus speaking above in this Padgett Message is the true Christ? This stuff is sure not for the faint hearted!
I feel that there is a degree of misinterpretation here. I am in agreement with AM123
Thank you FarmerX
I agree with you am123!!!
Thank you jm
There is no such thing as immortality.
Immortality was the original lie in The Garden.
Gen 3:3-4 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die.
Wake up and repent forthwith.
yes2truth = yes2insane — the two nomenclatures are synonymous.
How did you type that ‘genius’ comment with your hands tied behind your back and without your brain engaged?
If you ever did discover how to overcome your severe disabilities you would become extremely dangerous.
That’s the second time today you’ve had your sanity challenged, Grouchy.
How often does that happen to sane men?
How would anyone like you be able to judge who is or who is not sane?
This would be the height of impossibility.
Thus sayeth POPE CRABBY (yes2truth):
“There is no such thing as immortality.”
Thus sayeth the Apostle Paul:
1 Corinthians 15:52-53
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised INCORRUPTIBLE, and we shall be changed…
So when this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on IMMORTALITY, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
The ‘twinkling of an eye’ means death and then resurrection and this only applies to those that are alive at Yashua Anointed’s return. Everyone else i.e. the majority of Christians will be raised FROM THE DEAD from their graves.
Care to describe how those in their graves are immortal Mr Ecoli?
Come on, it’s time I had really good laugh – I call it the EColi squirm.
Blathering will now very likely commence: This is a baltherers warning – urgent; This is a baltherers warning – urgent; This is a baltherers warning – urgent; This is a baltherers warning – urgent; This is a baltherers warning – urgent; This is a baltherers warning – urgent.
Have I slipped into a vortex where Pope Crabby gets to make up the rules after the fact?
No. I have not.
I quoted YOU, Your Pomposity.
I did not invent a quotation and attribute it to you.
You said: “There is no such thing as immortality.”
Not I.
Once again, that which Your Eminence, Grouchy Z. Crabb, has to say…
…is precisely the opposite of that which we find written in Scripture.
Correct there is no such thing as immortality because the correct translation should ahve been ‘incorruptibilty’ not immortality. We PUT ON INCORRUPTION.
aphtharsia
af-thar-see’-ah
From G862; incorruptibility; generally unending existence; (figuratively) genuineness: – immortality, incorruption, sincerity.
Immortality means NEVER seeing death, hence the immortal soul crap of Popery and Christians DO SEE DEATH.
Immortality is a LIE as being preached here on this thread by this James creature.
PS I wish you would slip into a vortex – that really would give me a laugh.
Pope Crabb,
The Greek word you have highlighted appears earlier in the very same verse. Therefore, when Paul meant to say INCORRUPTION, he said INCORRUPTION (G861 ἀφθαρσία aphtharsia); and when he meant to say IMMORTALITY he said IMMORTALITY (G110 ἀθανασία athanasia).
These are two different words with two different meanings, Your Eminence.
Thus sayeth His Highness, Eminence Crabb:
“Immortality means NEVER seeing death, hence the immortal soul crap of Popery and Christians DO SEE DEATH.”
AND THUS SAYETH MESSIAH YEHOSHUA, THE SON OF ALMIGHTY GOD:
“Verily, verily, I say to you… If a man keep my saying, HE SHALL NEVER SEE DEATH.”
Any questions?
Yes, what death was Yashua Anointed talking about?
I didn’t hear Him equivocate.
Or stipulate.
Or differentiate.
Death, Crabby. Shall not see.
Ha Ha Ecoli Beef exposed once more for the ignorant Spiritually dead wretch that he is.
I won’t thank you for confirming that you, like all those other Judasing mongrel dogs on my thread, haven’t a clue about the Spiritual dimension.
Never mind I’ll just have to accept the fact that you cannot answer the question and thereby prove my point.
Time you disappeared Ecoli or retired gracefully, for the longer you stay here the bigger the fool you will look.
YHWH willing Crabby,
You’re going to be stuck with me for longer than you’d hoped.
Better get back to your studies while you still have a Bible and a hand to grab it with.
And while you still have knees, well…
you get the idea.
Or maybe you don’t.
No, I leave all that religious grovelling to you ‘righteous’ types.
I know where I am and where I stand with Yashua Anointed – unlike you.
Don’t forget to sit under my table waiting for my crumbs.
You are justifying codswallop. If God planted the tree of knowledge of good and bad in the Garden of Eden, then it was in full awareness that man would disobey. If God didn’t want man to disobey then why plant the tree where it would happen?
It’s like us with a baby, if you leave electrical sockets open and a screwdriver near by, you know that your baby is likely to try inserting the screwdriver into the electrical socket and get electrocuted. What would you do, leave it as it is, or do something different to prevent it?
God then punished man for disobeying, increasing birth pain and kicking them out of Eden. It then changed it’s mind, by saving the one family that did know good from bad and drowning the entire world because the rest had obeyed and didn’t know.
You can’t have it both ways, is God all knowing or not? If IT is all knowing then it’s pure evil.
And before anyone starts plugging free will, there would be no such thing if there was an all knowing anything. We would be left with predestination to follow the known future exactly like a preprogrammed Sim. The only possible way to alter the future would be for the all knowing IT to do something different to change it, we would have no say or freewill, we could only suffer the consequences of IT’s actions.
BUT PIX…
The possibility you consistently overlook is this:
WHAT IF the baby’s slamming a screwdriver into the outlet did actually redound to his growth and establishment as a creature of more complete being?
(No, I don’t actually recommend allowing infants to play with electricity.)
What if the Most High, knowing that man would indeed disobey His commandments, DID actually impose an environment conducive to that disobedience…
Only to use that very environment and that disobedience to suit His greater purpose?
Why is this not possible in your constricted view of things?
I agree with what you’re saying BEEF SUPREME. It took me a long time through my soul-healing to come to the realisation and acceptance that God has set it all up so humanity could be subjected to Rebellion.
And then He has wanted me, for reasons I am yet still unaware, to begin life subjected to such rebellion, so I’ve taken it on becoming evil like we all do. And now for me personally, and for whatever reasons I am still to uncover, God is helping me to see the way to do my healing, so I can get myself out of my evilness.
And I believe that in the fullness of time, I will benefit from my negative experience of living untrue to myself, and the healing of it.
And already I am benefiting, for as much as I hate living untrue, still to live knowing what it feels like to feel so unloved, and to be so unloving being evil; then to see why I feel so unloved; then to work my way out of it feeling gradually more loved, is helping me appreciate love more than perhaps I might have had I never been subjected to being and feeling unloved, had I grown up on a perfect world.
That’s one of the most insightful comments I have seen posted on this website, James. And I’ve been paddling around in these waters for quite a while now.
BEEF SUPREME, thank you for your response. And I’ve been thinking more about this too, there’s a lot in it, and it holds a lot of deeper truth; you said: “WHAT IF the baby’s slamming a screwdriver into the outlet did actually redound to his growth and establishment as a creature of more complete being?” It’s interesting and I’ve wrestled with it a lot over the years as it brings up the notion of control. How much control should we impose over ourselves and of course, our children. Should one be completely free to do as ones pleases – total free will, or should one conform following the authority’s letter of the law – our parents.
And if we were free to put the screwdriver into the outlet what would happen… and if we died, would this be such a bad thing moving on into our spirit lives.
And then it brings into question the notion of free will, and do we really have it, or is it that God allows us to believe we do, and gives us experiences of our personality expression that makes us feel like we’re in control, when in fact God is controlling our every thought, word and deed, all good and bad ones, through our soul. God being the creator of our soul.
Beef and James
Here is a clear scripture, Revelation 13: 8
“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship Him whose names are not written in the book of Life of the Lamb — slain from the foundation of the earth.”
The Father and the Word knew when they began creation Christ would have to die for our sins.
Human nature is vanity, jealousy, lust and greed, of and by our own selves we are dead.
Speaking of forgiveness, our “friend” the ‘perfect one’ can not understand what Christ had to do for us. In Revelation 7: 14 it talks about those that come out of Great Tribulation that have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb”
If Christ took the Law away how and why were they made white in the blood of the Lamb?
If the “friend” were correct then the blood simply took away the Law. Taking away the Law does not wash our robes, they are covered in sin. The Blood washes away our sins, it does not wash away the Law.
I think human nature is the expression of perfect natural love: ‘truth, beauty and goodness’ (re: the Urantia Book). And it’s only that we’re living untrue to ourselves in our evilness that we are forced into having to feel and so express jealousy, lust and greed. And if we were parented truly lovingly we’d never feel or have the need for the bad stuff.
And as far as anything washing away our sins goes, we don’t get off the hook that easy, it’s all hard slog having to work through all those areas of yourself that are making you not be truly loving.
Try this: Ask yourself – am I denying one bad feeling? For example, I feel jealous but stop myself from feeling that way, telling myself I must not, for it’s bad to feel this way – I am a naughty boy – STOP IT!
And so if you can look at yourself and truthfully say, yes, I am denying feelings and not fully allowing them to be and have their say, then you are living denying yourself; or, being untrue to yourself, untrue to all you feel. And this simple act of going against yourself, which many of us do countless times a day, is sinning against our soul; it’s what, in my opinion, being evil is really all about. Simply being untrue to oneself.
And so to become true, we need to look for the reasons of why we’re denying our bad feelings – denying any feelings, as we can also stop ourselves from feeling all the good ones. And that is how we wash away our sins, by uncovering the truth of our self-denial, by setting ourselves free through the truth, the truth then replacing our untruth.
“WHAT IF the baby’s slamming a screwdriver into the outlet did actually redound to his growth and establishment as a creature of more complete being?”
Great, why don’t you give it a go. electric shock treatment might help your teanage ‘but but but’ problems.
What if’s are pointless to reality… What if it’s a zebra crossing a road? What if it’s the road the zebra is crossing on? Not real helpful eh.
There would be no disobeying if there was an all knowing anything. Only predestination to follow the known future, exactly like a preprogrammed Sim. Is IT all knowing or not, you can’t have it both ways.
BEEF
Is your deity all knowing?
If yes, then no freewill would be possible or necessary. We would be left with predestination because the known can’t be changed. We would be nothing but Sims being played with by an evil narcissistic schizophrenic monster.
If it’s not all knowing, why call it god?
My bet is you will continue to ignore this point because there is only one answer. There is no such thing as an all knowing anything that would not be pure evil.
Pix wrote:
“There would be no disobeying if there was an all knowing anything.”
You are not in a position to make such a statement, with any authority. In short, because you yourself ARE a limited being, you cannot legitimately encompass an infinite Being with your attempted limiting parameters. FACT: The limitless Being could EASILY include the disobedience of limited beings in His plan for the development of those limited beings – the very creation of the limitless Being – if it were the WILL of the limitless Being to do so. Your logic and reasoning are too flimsy to stand Pix. Perhaps if you were markedly less limited than you are, you would be able to see the reality of this situation more clearly.
“Only predestination to follow the known future, exactly like a preprogrammed Sim.”
I don’t discount the probability of predestination. Rather, I am an advocate of it, which Scripture supports. There is nothing on the order of free-will for mankind found in Scripture. There is self-will and there is freedom of choice, but always within the confines of significant limitations. Free-will is not a scripturally legitimate doctrine.
“My bet is you will continue to ignore this point because there is only one answer.”
If I have not sufficiently addressed your objections, then please do tell. My bet is that you will continue to ignore what I have written here, because you have consistently ignored my points in the past. You hear what you expect and hope to hear ONLY. Anything extraneous to your expectations is rejected by your brain from even entering into your head. Why is this? All I have ever done in our ongoing conversation is to DENY the doctrine of free-will.
If it isn’t in Scripture, I will never insist that it is.
The next time we speak, you will in all likelihood have NEGLECTED to hear me this time as well.
And then you complain about childish antics. You need look no further for that than your nearest mirror.
I find it an interesting thing to ponder:
The soul is existential, existing in its own what could be called for want or a better word: soul-land. God’s Soul is existential, existing in this Soul-Land, and it seeks to ‘Know Itself’. And It’s achieving this through all in Creation – through us. As we get to know ourselves through our feelings and NOT through our mind, so too do we get to know God; and so too does God get to know Himself. How better to get to know yourself than through your own children, because your child will always be reflecting back to you yourself – through how you’re treating them.
So God’s Soul is expressing Itself in what is called Creation, Creation being created by that Soul, and being experiential. And our souls are doing the same thing. They, like God, are expressing their personality in Creation, we being conscious of that, of ourselves being a soul-persoanality.
So in the souls domain, everything is all-known, there is no freedom of will, there is no time, no experience, no past or present, only NOW – whatever that even is, as it’s all existential.
But then there is ALSO, the experiential, in which we have a degree of freedom to think, feel and act. And so we are self-willed in Creation, in our personality expression, yet within that there are still well defined boundaries, so ultimately limiting our complete free-will. But we have, if you like, more than enough free will to make us feel we’re in control should we seek such control using our minds, but as we give up such control instead living with our feelings ‘in control’, then we move to feel more in tune with our soul, and a nice feeling of knowing that God is looking after you and everything comes up within you, and you don’t have to worry – you are Loved!
Jesus explains in the Padgett Messages how upon partaking of the Divine Love, and as we do our healing, so our ‘soul-perceptions’ awaken through our feelings, and it’s through these ‘extra’ perceptions coming from our soul that we truly get to know, and can know, God. And so without these soul-perceptions, one will never move out of the mind trying to understand and interpret everything, so one will never be able to ‘KNOW’ God, only at best, believe with the mind that God is real.
“As we get to know ourselves through our feelings and NOT through our mind, so too do we get to know God; and so too does God get to know Himself.”
Says who, James. I can think of fewer ways to be misled faster and more completely, then by relinquishing the helm of the ship to our emotions. Emotions are unstable and can EASILY be impacted, if not outright controlled (think Nuremburg Rally) by our environment. External forces must not be allowed steer us so completely. Throwing caution to the wind in this respect is too dangerous.
“And our souls are doing the same thing. They, like God, are expressing their personality…”
Have your studies truly led you to a place where you believe that our personalities should be exalted so? Isn’t it not rather that out personality is our nature, and our nature is to be subdued and transcended because it is of the Earth, earthy and earthly? It seems to me as though you are advocating for magnifying aspects of man which are not worthy to be magnified – mainly because man himself is not worthy to be magnified. He is worthy to be humbled and to be perfected. The only way he can accomplish this is to DENY himself – not EXALT himself.
ALSO: Ask yourself the question – do you think the Infinite Creator is actually a PART of His creation, the way you seem to be describing here? Is He not rather OUTSIDE of His creation, and above it, entirely?
And if we suggest that we can get to know our Creator by getting to know ourselves or mankind, are we not holding our Creator in the uttermost contempt? Consider that we may indeed be.
How much can you honestly learn about the potter merely by examining the pottery?
Brother BEEF,
You are spot on with your analysis of Pix’s feeble limitedness (I include myself in such limitedness). The only thing Pix succeeds at is making a fool of himself by trying to judge God Almighty.
However, having said that, you said:
“Free-will is not a scripturally legitimate doctrine”
…and you said:
“There is nothing on the order of free-will for mankind found in Scripture.”
Nothing on the order of free-will found in Scripture
Really 
Whoah, slow down, I challenge that brother
And so all I have to do to win that beef (pun intended) is to produce something greater than nothing eh brother
Surely you agree to that and surely you’ll agree to the following: does not the following amount to more than nothing (of course it does
) 
We are given a choice between blessing and curse between life and death in Deuteronomy depending on if we follow the LORDs ways or not and throughout the bible we are admonished to choose wisely and rightly and to choose the fear of the LORD:
“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
Deuteronomy 30:19
“And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
Joshua 24:15
“For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the Lord”
Proverbs 1:29
“Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways.”
Proverbs 3:31
“For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;”
Isaiah 56:4
“Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.”
Isaiah 65:12
Clearly mankind can do choose to do things that please the Lord or not we can choose the things that lead to life or the things that lead to death we are given a choice in Deuteronomy between blessing and curse. Here’s a hint for one and all: CHOOSE LIFE HIS NAME IS YESHUAH OR JESUS
I think I’ve proven my case soundly and rest my case brother BEEF unless I have read this situation wrong and if I did, I apologize in advance brother, but I don’t think I have
Oh, one more thing thing BEEF, what is the difference between “self-will” , “freedom of choice”, and “free-will”
Are these not all one and the same
I think so
BEEF SUPREME, I do not mean to just give over to ones emotions, for I agree that might be foolhardy, especially as they can be influenced by our mind and its beliefs. I am however suggesting that instead of being afraid of ones FEELINGS, one can use them, by looking to fully accept and express them – WHILST SEEKING THEIR TRUTH, THE TRUTH THEY ARE TRYING TO SHOW US, thereby moving with them and not against them as so many of us do by denying and controlling them with our minds.
You see, for myself all thanks to my wife, I have found that my feelings are my way to my truth, that being, they are closer to my soul than my minds thoughts and beliefs. And by looking to them, looking into them, all whilst; and I STRESS: longing for the truth of them, as that is what you keeps you sane and on track when submitting to them, especially all the bad ones, then the truth of oneself, the truth of ones soul, is revealed. And it is, that much I have experienced. And I believe this is the true way to grow in truth, through the experience of our feelings rather than through our minds.
As far as personality goes, I’ve not considered it in the light of exalting it, however now you’ve brought it up, yes I do exalt it, yet not for egotistical reasons. Personality is God’s gift to us, it’s the true wonder of all, and the fact that God has Personality is what makes us able to get to know God as God can get to know us. So for me, life, Creation, everything, every experience we have, is about bringing more of ourselves – our personality, out into being, all so we can ‘know thyself’. And we’ve only got ourselves to know, we are an ongoing constant amazing study of self; and yes, I do feel that it is through ourselves as we get to know ourselves so we get to personally know God. I can’t see any other way. It’s all going in, not out, into the paradise of ourselves – our soul, as we ascend in truth inwards through Creation to the Paradise of Soul – God.
So as we grow in truth – the truth of our soul, so too as we growing in the truth of God. I see we are to experience God through and with our feelings, and not our minds as so many people are trying to do, this being so far as I can see, their difficulty and limitation. Our mind is to support our feelings, not the other way around. We’re not meant to subject our feelings and emotions enslaving them to our minds, and it’s a big leap of faith to start to submit to your feelings, express them, and seek their truth. Because if you do this, then you start doing your healing, and then you’ll come up against all that’s wrong within you, that being what most people are trying to avoid.
We only need to be humbled because we’re living untrue to ourselves by denying so many of our bad feelings. Were we living true, we’d just naturally be humble and perfect. We are something of a ‘false man’ in our negative and evil states, and that we have to heal. And when healed, we will truly be as Jesus says in his prayer for the Divine Love in the Padgett Messages: ‘…the greatest of Thy creations…’
I think God is part of His creation, and that’s the whole point of Creation, for God to get to know Himself through it – through us. We read in The Urantia Book that God gives to each of us a part of His spirit called the Indwelling Spirit of God, it being what a lot of people confuse with the Higher Self. So through these indwelling spirits, God is very much apart of and participating directly from within Creation, and from without as you are saying through the soul.
I think there’s a lot you can learn about the potter by examining the pottery. If I am one of God’s handiworks, then as I examine myself, getting closer to my soul as I grow in truth, then so too am I learning about God, which is what I love about the whole thing.
And BEEF, thank you for your stimulating comments, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed thinking about them and seeing what I feel.
am123 wrote:
“[D]oes not the following amount to more than nothing(?) (of course it does)”
That’s philosophy brother. Let’s talk Scripture. Now then – you go and ask Pharaoh if he had free will.
When you have Someone, Anyone, “turning the hearts of men” or “turning the hearts of A man” – that turning, most simply and absolutely, negates the very possibility of free-will. Once will becomes limited, in any capacity whatsoever, it is no longer free. There is freedom of choice, but even this freedom is extremely limited. There is self-will, which is petulance, or will in opposition to YHWH (due either to ignorance or rebellion).
There is no such thing as free-will for men. Men are not free. We are servants of either one Master, or another. The yoke of Messiah is still a yoke. Just ask the Apostle Paul.
“We are given a choice between blessing and curse between life and death…”
Being given a CHOICE has absolutely nothing to do with free-will. The mere fact that we are GIVEN a choice, once again, negates any and all legitimate claim to free-will. Being given a choice is freedom of choice, which very often is no freedom at all. Just ask Hegel, the philosopher most directly responsible for the ‘freedom’ of choice (illusion) which the citizens of this world are given each and every day of their term of slavery here on Earth.
James wrote:
“Personality is God’s gift to us, it’s the true wonder of all, and the fact that God has Personality is what makes us able to get to know God as God can get to know us.”
That’s only a one way street brother. Our Creator has no need to get to know us. We can show this axiomatically by a self-evident truth. The truth is this: He made us. The tense is past. As is the deed. The knowledge of a thing to be made does not come AFTER the thing is made. It can only come before. Otherwise, the thing cannot be made. Created beings may yet be undergoing a process of completion. The Creator Himself can never be other than complete. To suggest that He is learning or He is being added to in any way, is to suggest that He is lacking and is incomplete – less than perfect, less than infinite. Suggesting a limited creator is one way to ensure that you meet one.
“So for me, life, Creation, everything, every experience we have, is about bringing more of ourselves – our personality, out into being, all so we can ‘know thyself’.”
This is the exact opposite of our orders from on High. We are ordered to subdue and to subject more and more of ourselves, so that we can become a suitable vessel for receiving more and more of the uncorrupted and ‘uncorruptable’ Spirit of our Father through His Son, our Teacher.
“And we’ve only got ourselves to know, we are an ongoing constant amazing study of self…”
There it is again. That’s philosophy. Greek Philosophy. The Greeks were pagan worshippers of the Fallen Ones.
Philosophy says: “Know Thyself”
The Word says: “Rule Thyself”
Failure to make this distinction places us directly on one of the many roads which lead to Rome. ALL roads lead to Rome, in fact. Then there is the Way. The Way is such a narrow and afflicted passage that it can’t even rightly be called a road. Be careful not to walk right past it without even taking notice of its existence. Many make just such a mistake.
Are you looking for the path of least resistance James? It sounds to me like you are. As your brother, I can warn you that you will never get where you think you’re going by taking the easy routs. Zen? Peace of mind? Ease on down the road? Who really preaches such sweet sermons? Do you think we were put into this world to be at peace and be at ease?
“We only need to be humbled because we’re living untrue to ourselves by denying so many of our bad feelings.”
I could scarcely disagree with you more about this point. Rather, I believe we need to be humbled because we are clothed with the filthy rags of our earthly nature. When we are at peace, we can suffer ourselves to believe we are unstained by things like greed and envy and wrath. But what happens when we are not at peace? What happens when we are in need, or become agitated, angered, or aggrieved? Living ‘true to ourselves’ is a sure way into the wilderness. DENYING ourselves places us on the path we could otherwise never find with our own compass.
“We are something of a ‘false man’ in our negative and evil states…”
He created us this way for a specific reason. To discover the reason for this is to enter into an entirely new chapter in this ongoing process.
“…in the Padgett Messages…”
You would do well to at least become familiar with what ‘Jesus’ has said in the authentic messages. Contained in those authentic messages are numerous and repeated warnings to beware any and all additional messages. Contained in the authentic messages are many tools which we can use to assay all of the ‘other’ messages – be they old or new. Messiah Himself has taught us how to detect a counterfeit. No one would know how to do this if he was not taught how. You, by your own admission, have not been taught, because you have divorced yourself from an entire Body of writing because you don’t like how it makes you feel. Your feelings and emotions are blocking you from examining evidence. This can NEVER be a good thing, James. There can be NO evidence which you consider to be off limits in this search. To limit yourself thus is to shoot yourself in the foot with a shotgun at the beginning of the New York Marathon and actually expect to remain capable of finishing the race. You can’t win James. You can’t even finish. Your objection to reading Scripture is an obstacle. It is nothing more than that. Obstacles are put in our path for a reason. This calls for very careful consideration.
“I think there’s a lot you can learn about the potter by examining the pottery.”
Stop. Imagine you were handed a piece of pottery from an alien world in an alien galaxy. You may study the pottery for as long as you like. But when you are finished, you must teach me about the potter. Do you really expect me to believe you think you can do this in any meaningful sense of the right and the true?
BEEF wrote:
“go and ask Pharaoh if he had free will.”
Granted, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart. But does that mean God overrides everyone’s free will?
“Being given a CHOICE has absolutely nothing to do with free-will.”
Can you give a choice to someone who doesn’t have a free will? If they don’t have free will, then it wouldn’t be a choice.
Just some food for thought on the free will topic:
We live in a reality in which free will manifests itself in a way that we commonly recognize it as free will, by definition. What I mean by that is for example, when confronted with a basically 50/50 choice, sometimes people will flip a coin in order to determine what to do (which itself is a free will choice), heads they will do this, or tails they will do that. If this scenario is repeated say 1,000 times all over the world by 1,000 different people, then you would get about 500 heads results 500 tails results. So the fact that we see an equal distribution of results instead of skewed results speaks to the free will (or truly random) choice of the participants.
am123 wrote:
“Can you give a choice to someone who doesn’t have a free will? If they don’t have free will, then it wouldn’t be a choice.”
One cannot GIVE a choice to one who has free will. He who has free will already has, at his disposal, ALL choice. The Most High alone has free will. We do not have free will. We are servants. A servant does not have freedom of will. Even the Sons of God do not have free will.
Question for BEEF:
Is everything that happens on earth, the good, the bad, and the ugly, God’s will?
Without free will, one has to attribute all the evil things that happen to God’s will.
For anyone interested, for anyone who so chooses to listen, here is an interesting teaching on free will and predestination by Pastor Peter Tan:
http://spiritword.net/video/TS0002.2.mp4
@BEEF – at about the 13:00 mark, Pastor Tan speaks to God’s treatment of Pharaoh.
The above is just one audio/video on the topic of predestination. Several more can be found in the Predestination section on the following page:
http://www.petertan.net/newsite/post-2009_TS.html
am123,
Yes, it is my contention that NOTHING which takes place in this world happens in opposition to YHWH’s will. He could have raised up perfect sons if He had chosen to. It was His will to do things otherwise.
ALL of the dirt and grime and evil and crime which takes place here, serve His purposes. Everything here happens for a reason. Nothing is by chance, and nothing is left to chance. There is information and communication contained in everything. Not a single atom is out of place, and all things were known by Him from the beginning.
This leaves no room for free will of our own. We don’t have it, and no one, no messenger of YHWH, ever told us we do.
I agree with you BEEF, and more so each day, that God, of course, is in complete control of it all, so does want us to be evil, and for all the reasons we can uncover in ourselves through our healing.
And that to have such a ‘negative’ experience holds great value, that which no doubt we’ll be drawing upon for the rest of eternity.
And that we also, when we decide – or, when God decided, no longer have to live in such a self and feeling-denying way, we no longer have to be evil, and so God will put in motion – such thoughts as our no longer wanting to remain evil, so we can work – with Him – to get ourselves out of it.
And more and more I’m enjoying the experience of having ‘free will’ within a context or life that has none, with God being in control of it all. I’m appreciating the dichotomy. I’m not longer finding I have to have it one way or the other. I’m just accepting it all. That is, accepting it as much as God is wanting me to accept it!!!
BEEf I understand what you say about God knowing all, so knows us all, however I would point out should you wish to consider The Urantia Book, there are other ‘Gods’, experiential ones that through our experiences are coming into being – such as the Supreme Being. And even though the Father knows all, still there must also be value in getting know all He has created through the personality of the Supreme or else such personalities wouldn’t exist.
If you haven’t considered the Urantia Book, with your intellectual grasp on things you might find you relish such concepts contained within it. You’d possibly enjoy the stimulation it would afford you. And it might not challenge your scripture too much.
And about studying the pottery of course I agree you could never understand the potter from the outside, however I think you missed my point, I am saying I am the pottery, and through my study of myself I am uncovering an understudying about and awareness of the potter – God. And I feel that’s what I’ll be doing forevermore, the more I understand the truth of myself, so the more I’ll also be understanding the truth of God. The more I get to know my personality, the more I’ll get to know God’s.
James said:
“God, of course, is in complete control of it all, so does want us to be evil”
This of course is in direct opposition to the Word of God:
“Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.”
— Luke 18:20
The problem with blind faith is that you can go on arguing back and forth endlessly. Real truth is there in the heart of a self realized soul.
not to be one to shift paradigms here, heh, but i want to point to the mammoth in the room – james padgette.
i have to assume that since you did not in any way address the circumstances and nature of how this letter came to be,as delivered by padgette, you readily accept it as valid and he as credible. really?
i had never heard of james padgette before but in reading what i am linking here, i have to wonder what you’re really thinking.
http://thepadgettmessages.org
sorry for the misspelling
“i had never heard of james padgette before but in reading what i am linking here, i have to wonder what you’re really thinking.”
I don’t know what you mean by what I’m really thinking??? However, what I do think is James E. Padgett is not only a ‘Great American’ but someone who should be put on the top of the ‘Doing good for humanity’ list, far higher than any other religious or spiritual person has ever done – excepting Jesus of course.
James Padgett humbly received these messages, which when taken to heart and their truth felt and lived, aligns ones self with our very Father in Heaven Himself, for we can understand that we can specifically long directly to God for his Love – the Divine Love. And there’s nothing better we can do for our soul than that…. and heal ourselves of our evilness.
And furthermore, spiritual history will look back on James Padgett’s work as one of the major turning points for mankind. James Padgett did after all ‘receive’ Jesus’ Second Coming of truth.
Get it – Jesus came through James Padgett to give to us all the necessary truth he revealed back when he was on Earth, the very same truth we’ve perverted and corrupted.
Jesus had to come back and re-reveal the Truths of Divine Love because he knew we’d take it all for ourselves and screw it up, misusing such truth for our own selfish power and ego needs.
Addressing the ‘Mammoth in the Room’…
This fella flatly denies any legitimacy from the quarter of ‘esoterica’ including any and all forms of divination, of which automatic writing certainly is a species.
This fella flatly refuses to give any slack to ‘new messages’, considering the stern, unequivocal, and repeated warnings about new messages given to us in our very OLD Messages.
This fella believes that any folks like ‘James Pladgette’ or ‘Trevor Plantegenete’ or whomever… who come to the fore with ‘new’ revelations of a similar stripe, are one of two things:
Wretchedly Deceived
or
Wretched Deceivers
Any and all new data which does not effortlessly synch up with the Old Data can be safely and summarily dismissed out-of-hand.
The years I have spent in minute examination of the Scriptures (‘canonical’ and otherwise) have led me to recognize them as something utterly beyond the capacity of mankind to create, and, as such, should be the touchstone by which all additional information is weighed and counted. One garden-variety method by which to assay the substance of additional information is to assess the ‘tone.’ The ‘tone’ of the Old Testament is ADAMINTINE. The new messages are often saccharine. The deceivers think they must come to men with whispers of light and love. TRUTH comes to the door with a hammer. When truth knocks, the first thing He must say to those who behold Him are: FEAR NOT.
The enemy comes sweetly and softly, all smiles and caresses.
Beef, how are you old friend.. have to say, i’ve missed your writing over the past few months.
always inspiring.. thought provoking..
..and what shall i love if not the enigma? – de chirico
Slow goings, Señor Paint.
The conversation’s been flowing like mud around here lately, with very few exceptions. A few minor modifications to the administrative system, such as the recent additional capacity for contributors to disable commentary, has dampened the process considerably. And I have been prevented from making over-many waves here, because they won’t let me post the articles I would if I could.
Aside from that, you haven’t missed much. The deterioration of our nation (and the world) seems to have been slipped into overdrive, and we passengers had better be looking for the seat belts, if not for a daring high-speed leap from the precariously speeding bus.
Anytime you care to drop me a line:
[email protected]
Howzthings in Brooklyn?
——————————————————–
“Never put thumbs between two wisdom teeth and there’s no answer to get out of my house and what do you want with my wife and whether the pitcher hits the stone or the stone hits the pitcher, it’s bad luck for the pitcher.”
–Sancho Panza
what i called into question by that is your stance on the legitimacy of automatic writing as a credible source, given it’s notoriety as a conduit for the realm of demons, and deception.
as you are aware of that, and seemingly possess the ability to discern the false, i see where you are coming from.
intriguing.
There aren’t any demons, that’s all childish belief that unfortunately so many little children have to suffer form at the hands of their parents. And if one were to read The Urantia Book, you’d see how by Jesus’ coming the Rebellion ended with most of the higher spirits and fallen angels no longer having any ability to affect us on Earth or those susceptible in the mansion worlds.
I am open to truth coming from any source and in any way, automatic writing included, and I trust in my feelings, which is all any of us can do anyway, that that truth that resonates with me is good for me, helping to take me to the next stage in my journey.
There is nothing to fear from spirits when you understand they are just people, all the good and bad people of Earth who die and go to live in the various planes and sectors in the spirit mansion worlds. And so if you open yourself up to them, then you can get in touch with good or bad spirits. And if you feel overpowered by ‘bad’ spirits, then it’s only because deeper within you you’re still wanting their attention for some reason, those reasons coming to light should you want to do your soul-healing.
The spirits worlds are a HUGE resource for us, there are masses of well-meaning spirits, even many of ones own family and ancestors that would dearly love to help us with our lives on Earth. We are NOT meant to live our physical lives alone, shut off from such spirit help, as we are all still apart of humanity. And it’s such a pity that so many in the religions are made to be afraid of such spirits, doing themselves and the spirits out of what could potentially be great joy.
If you’ve ever experienced ‘getting a message’ of love or hope from the ‘other side’ then it gives you such a thrill, helping you to feel that much more aware of the wonder and ‘Greatness of God’.
interesting response as your first line echoes the sentiments of many who regard the spirit world, and God as nothing more than fantasy also.
this is all a fascinating perspective.. in particular, a willingness to accept truth “coming from any source and in any way”.
to me, truth is elusive and malleable.. not sure that i know what truth is at all. you are fortunate to have eliminated for yourself perpetual doubt.
Warpaint wrote to James:
“you are fortunate to have eliminated for yourself perpetual doubt.”
Mr. BEEF will now take the liberty of interpreting sage words from Mr. Paint:
(and we think we actually see this spin intended on the words as written)
Well. But Use Caution Brother.
And if you don’t actually believe there are highway robbers and deceivers along the Way, who would love to strip you bare of your possessions and your substance…
…then at least become well-versed in the ‘mythos’ of these rebels and criminals. If they exist, they will take from you everything. If you let them. You are traveling at ease. Careless. Imprudent.
(we hope we don’t speak too far out of turn or too far from the mark)
James,
It is now clear that you believe in an immortal soul, we don’t really die we just go some place else.
Forget other books and what other men or women have to say, they are meaningless.
Can you show scripture from God’s Word that without doubt teach men have or are immortal souls??
I would love to see those. No one has been able to do so to date.
Question, Why would Christ have to die for us so we may receive the GIFT of eternal life?
If we are already immortal how can He give us what we already have???
You may want to research the Word “soul”, the Hebrew word Nephesh/soul also is use when talking about animals.
Truthseeker, I don’t read the Bible, never have, I’ve never been able to make sense of it. My mind can’t deal with trying to ‘see the hidden meaning’ in things, I can only cope with the plain facts and stuff, even truth, that makes sense to me, and most in the Padgett Messages rings true to me. However in many ways I’ve also moved on from the PM’s because there’s a lot not said in them, like the whole feminine aspect or side to God; and what Mary Magdalene, Jesus’ soul-mate would have said to us had she been able to rise up to her full position of Light when on Earth.
And the question about why would Jesus have to die for us – for us sins, is as he said in the PM’s, wrong. I think his death does allow us to consider how we – humanity – rejected Jesus and Mary, how we rebelled and indeed are still rebelling against them, the Churches being the perfect example of this. For had we truly accepted him – them, and all they came to show us, things would have been very different.
For me the whole of this age of Mary’s and Jesus (these past 2000 years) is one in which humanity has taken all they offered us, and used it for our own selfish ends, using it to further our untruth, instead of using to help us understand our immortal souls.
Some really good points, James, and by your questions I see that you ‘think’ quite well. There are others, here, far better equipped than myself who are able to show you where YOU might find for YOURSELF the Truth to these matters. Rightly accept no man’s opinion without severe test.
There’s just one thing I need to say and you mentioned it early in your post. The Bible or Scripture was not written in English and as such we see that the rhythm or cadence does not lay easily on our tongue. However nothing is hidden and The Inspired Word means exactly and only what it says, with great confidence I boast that none have been able to prove elsewise.
You might be right about that Mayhem, but I only feel, and have only ever felt, greatly disturbed trying to read the Bible, yet when I read The Urantia Book or the Padgett Messages it’s effortless, like it’s what I’ve been looking for all along.
I wanted to make one more point about Jesus dying on the cross for our sins referring to a comment above, and it involves Jesus being the ‘Living Truth’ who is always showing us The Truth. So by his dying in such a horrible way, he is showing us the truth of ourselves, holding up a mirror to us if you like. And so from that we can gather that in fact it’s ourself that is nailed to a cross and dying on it. We keep ourselves nailed to it by living untrue to ourselves persisting in our negative, unloving and evil ways, making ourselves feel very bad, all of which bad feelings we then deny telling ourselves we instead feel good. And that we – our souls – are dying, we’re slowly killing ourselves by not allowing ourselves to be free to express all we feel. So we are the sad cases, all hanging up there in our hollow lives, all having to battle with each other such as in these comments, all whilst deluding ourselves that we know ‘The Way’, when really, we have to admit, we don’t have a clue. I feel it’s only when we can let go of IT ALL that then we start to understand what it really means by being Born Again, or as Jesus says in the PM’s, ‘Born Anew’.
I held many similar questions, James, and as a modestly capable wordsmith it troubled me greatly that I could make little sense of Scripture.
Here is my testimony…
After a decades long examination of the lies of men and more particularly TPTB I arrive at a point where I no longer believe anything I hear and very little of what I see. To be certain I’m alluding to the likes of AGW, Vivisection, Vaccination, Nibiru, the Mayan debacle, peak oil among so many others but lets not dwell.
I was greatly troubled as I had no safe haven to turn to who would tell me truth only agenda promoting propaganda. Presently or presciently i stumbled upon this site and saw that many of those who could thrash me in a Bible quoting fest were being held to task using only Scripture to do so. It was then, at nearly 50yrs old, that I was given the confidence to know that it is my right to inherently know right from wrong or truth from lies.
I am learning His Truth and have found this to be flawless and the bits that i’m ignorant about are being revealed to me through debates like these on sites like this. Mayhem.
ps there’s no standing on one foot while squinting to work this out, all that is needed apart from a pulse is the ability to read a language and a search engine.
Did Beef Supreme not say it best?
“The deceivers think they must come to men with whispers of light and love. TRUTH comes to the door with a hammer. When truth knocks, the first thing He must say to those who behold Him are: FEAR NOT.”
You’ll need a fair bit of brave once you find for YOURSELF exactly where all of Truth resides and, friend, there is nothing new under the sun.
Re: the Second Coming of Jesus. Something else to consider. The Urantia Book points out that there are many higher types of spirits – Descending Sons (and Daughters – so far as I’m concerned), Jesus and Mary Magdalene being the two main ones concerning us. However there are others (Avonals) and lots of them, all of which could be called Christs. And any of them could potentially come to Earth to help humanity move to the next stage in its spiritual growth.
So concerning Jesus saying he will come again, yes, he the person might come again as in through the Morontia Temple in the far distant future. And as for the Christ to come again, that means at any time one of these higher spirit pairs could come, those who’s soul are capable of liberating Spirits of Truth – that which to my mind the word ‘Christ’ is actually referring to.
So Christ could return soon, at any moment for the spiritual age is turning and requires such a higher spirit to make it happen; or, Jesus himself in person could return should he wish to materialise on Earth. But what can’t happen is Jesus coming as the Christ again, because he’s already liberated his Spirit of Truth, and so they’d be nothing gained by him coming again anyway in that capacity. He’s already achieved his necessary personality individuality through his Earth bestowal and incarnation.